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Effects of fexofenadine, diphenhydramine, and alcohol on driving performance

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Effects of fexofenadine, diphenhydramine, and alcohol on driving performance

#21

Post by 988747 »

mberning wrote: post #18

I didn’t see it in the abstract but how are the alcohol and placebo administered? If they were ingested the participant surely knew they got alcohol or a placebo. And I assume that may have some impact on their performance aside from possibly being intoxicated. I suppose all 4 could be IV administered, but it doesn’t sound like that.

Well, you can give non-alcoholic beer to the subject telling them it is a real thing. Or make them a cocktail, such as Mojito, just a virgin one. Or the opposite: give them a soda secretly spiced with vodka. The possibilities are endless. But the problem is: people usually are familiar with how being drunk feels (and 0.1% BAC is pretty drunk), so it's almost impossible to hide the fact from them. So I guess "placebo group" is only with relation to drugs, not to alcohol.

Re: Effects of fexofenadine, diphenhydramine, and alcohol on driving performance

#22

Post by dfsegoat »

hammock wrote: post #19
tyrfing wrote: post #2

2nd gen antihistamines (Fexofenadine, Cetirizine, Loratidine) are definitely what you want for allergies. 1st gen like Benadryl/Diphenydramine have awful side effects. I highly recommend nasal sprays like Fluticasone as well, available OTC in the US these days and amazing stuff.

> Fluticasone A corticosteroid, it has awful side effects as well

Maybe. But I would say for me the benefits of not suffering "breakthrough" hayfever attacks far outweigh the side effects.

Antihistamines are great - but the nasal corticosteroids are what really control my hayfever (1) when used consistently.

1 - Hayfever so bad that I used to have to get custom serum shots containing the local pollen profile, every 2 weeks as a kid. Had anaphylaxis twice.

Re: Effects of fexofenadine, diphenhydramine, and alcohol on driving performance

#24

Post by ipsin »

hammock wrote: post #20

To play devil’s advocate: People forget that drunk driving laws started as the result of activist campaigns from special interest groups only a few decades ago. It is itself a victimless crime; we have existing laws against reckless driving, causing accidents, vehicular manslaughter, etc.; and as this study shows there are plenty of common, less regulated (i.e. showing no signs of impairment yet blowing into a measur…

It seems like a "victimless crime" in the same way that a hit and run is a victimless crime, as long as you get away with it.

Someone has willfully chosen to make life more dangerous for everyone else. It's possible they won't be caught, but ignoring the act carries a real possibility of harm.

There are people who would drive drunk every single day, if they could get away with it.

Re: Effects of fexofenadine, diphenhydramine, and alcohol on driving performance

#25

Post by [deleted] »

jmalicki wrote: post #4

The article is extremely short, but comparing 2-4 OTC doses of diphenhydramine to a level of alcohol concentration above what constitutes a DUI in most places seems like an odd choice? Or is that just a matter of proof of concept, go for the big obvious demonstration first?

[deleted]

Re: Effects of fexofenadine, diphenhydramine, and alcohol on driving performance

#26

Post by tyrfing »

amluto wrote: post #10
tyrfing wrote: post #2

2nd gen antihistamines (Fexofenadine, Cetirizine, Loratidine) are definitely what you want for allergies. 1st gen like Benadryl/Diphenydramine have awful side effects. I highly recommend nasal sprays like Fluticasone as well, available OTC in the US these days and amazing stuff.

I would argue that, whatever “generation” it is, cetirizine does not deserve credit for being second generation. I know plenty of people with extremely obvious CNS effects from it. In contrast, loratadine seems innocuous.

For me, loratadine was ineffective, and I can't distinguish cetirizine and fexofenadine - both are maybe 50-60% effective with no notable side effects, and allergy season means extra fatigue no matter what. Cetirizine does have the shortest half life.

Re: Effects of fexofenadine, diphenhydramine, and alcohol on driving performance

#27

Post by hammock »

ipsin wrote: post #24
hammock wrote: post #20

To play devil’s advocate: People forget that drunk driving laws started as the result of activist campaigns from special interest groups only a few decades ago. It is itself a victimless crime; we have existing laws against reckless driving, causing accidents, vehicular manslaughter, etc.; and as this study shows there are plenty of common, less regulated (i.e. showing no signs of impairment yet blowing into a measur…

It seems like a "victimless crime" in the same way that a hit and run is a victimless crime, as long as you get away with it. Someone has willfully chosen to make life more dangerous for everyone else. It's possible they won't be caught, but ignoring the act carries a real possibility of harm. There are people who would drive drunk every single day, if they could get away with it.

> hit and run is a victimless crime

Not clear on your logic. A hit and run has a victim: whoever is the owner of the person or property you damaged.

In contrast, a drunk driver who is not under excess influence of the alcohol in his system and who gets from point A to point B safely, has victimized no one.

Re: Effects of fexofenadine, diphenhydramine, and alcohol on driving performance

#28

Post by jjulius »

hammock wrote: post #27
ipsin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like a "victimless crime" in the same way that a hit and run is a victimless crime, as long as you get away with it. Someone has willfully chosen to make life more dangerous for everyone else. It's possible they won't be caught, but ignoring the act carries a real possibility of harm. There are people who would drive drunk every single day, if they could get away with it.

> hit and run is a victimless crime Not clear on your logic. A hit and run has a victim: whoever is the owner of the person or property you damaged. In contrast, a drunk driver who is not under excess influence of the alcohol in his system and who gets from point A to point B safely, has victimized no one.

>In contrast, drunk driver who is not under excess influence of the alcohol in his system and who gets from point A to point B safely, has created no victims.

And what of the drunk driver under excess influence who creates a victim?

Re: Effects of fexofenadine, diphenhydramine, and alcohol on driving performance

#29

Post by rngoea »

hammock wrote: post #20

To play devil’s advocate: People forget that drunk driving laws started as the result of activist campaigns from special interest groups only a few decades ago. It is itself a victimless crime; we have existing laws against reckless driving, causing accidents, vehicular manslaughter, etc.; and as this study shows there are plenty of common, less regulated (i.e. showing no signs of impairment yet blowing into a measur…

Driving is inherently dangerous, regardless of impairment. Laws prohibiting drunk driving prevent excess deaths that would otherwise be commonplace if the practice were normalized.

I am in favour of total drug legalization (as consumption/possession are true victimless crimes) but impaired driving should remain prohibited. While it impossible to curtail all instances of impaired driving, we should aim to reduce its frequency where possible.

Re: Effects of fexofenadine, diphenhydramine, and alcohol on driving performance

#30

Post by weaksauce »

ipsin wrote: post #24
hammock wrote: post #20

To play devil’s advocate: People forget that drunk driving laws started as the result of activist campaigns from special interest groups only a few decades ago. It is itself a victimless crime; we have existing laws against reckless driving, causing accidents, vehicular manslaughter, etc.; and as this study shows there are plenty of common, less regulated (i.e. showing no signs of impairment yet blowing into a measur…

It seems like a "victimless crime" in the same way that a hit and run is a victimless crime, as long as you get away with it. Someone has willfully chosen to make life more dangerous for everyone else. It's possible they won't be caught, but ignoring the act carries a real possibility of harm. There are people who would drive drunk every single day, if they could get away with it.

The founder of madd in america thinks they went too far though.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2002/aug/6/20020806-035...

> Candy Lightner, MADD’s founder, says she disassociated herself from the movement in 1985 because she believed the organization was headed in the wrong direction.

> “It has become far more neo-prohibitionist than I had ever wanted or envisioned,” said Mrs. Lightner, who founded MADD after her daughter was killed by a drunk driver. “I didn’t start MADD to deal with alcohol. I started MADD to deal with the issue of drunk driving.”

> Several years after she left MADD, Mrs. Lightner briefly represented the American Beverage Institute in its fight against the 0.08 percent BAC law. She also lobbied Congress to enforce tougher penalties for drunk drivers.

Maybe she took up that position after getting hired by the beverage industry or not I don't know but she did lose a child to a drunk driver. 0.08 is probably too strict as the consequences of that are really severe and as evidenced basically no more impairing than widely used daily antihistamines.

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