Live data from Hacker News

Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

gcaptain.com

21–30 of 206 posts

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#21

The Navy builds its ships with steel, and the grades of steel used in the construction can experience rust. Solutions: Switch to 100% stainless steel. Stainless steel is an alloy and contains a minimum of 11% chromium. This allows the formation of a protective film of chromium oxide which acts as a shield against rust. The protective film will re-form if damaged. Corrosion resistance can be further enhanced with the…

You’re not a marine engineer, are you?

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#23

> "An AKE like the Shepard should have 129 crewmembers in perfect conditions but they are now running at roughly 80% because of manning problems,” said another MSC officer. “About 20 in the deck department can be assigned to rust prevent duty. However, that crew is also assigned to Underway Replenishment duties. Three Unreps could easily eat away an entire day. When we return to port can we OSPHO? No. Can I send a cr…

Manning problems have existed for a decade, if not more. The Navy holds the sad record of being the worst managed branch of service. Steep budget cuts in the 1990s and again during sequestration have had severe effects that the Navy hasn't yet recovered from. But I don't know whether that's the cause of the problem. The Navy is an especially unique branch given that it's the only service that revolves around a relati…

Where do you keep up with information like this? Do you have to work in the space or do you read certain periodicals or something else?

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#24

The Navy builds its ships with steel, and the grades of steel used in the construction can experience rust. Solutions: Switch to 100% stainless steel. Stainless steel is an alloy and contains a minimum of 11% chromium. This allows the formation of a protective film of chromium oxide which acts as a shield against rust. The protective film will re-form if damaged. Corrosion resistance can be further enhanced with the…

Stainless steel is pretty expensive, but I suppose it would be no big deal for the US Navy. I thought they used sacrificial anodes to stop rust.

Is it mechanically a 100% replacement for traditional steel used in naval construction? I recall specialty alloys like Wotan steel being used in WW2 warships. Perhaps such kinds of armor are not in vogue anymore, but corrosion resistance surely isn't the only requirement for naval construction, even if it's an important one. I'm not a metallurgist though, so I have no idea of all the implications of using stainless steel pervasively in naval construction.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#26

> "An AKE like the Shepard should have 129 crewmembers in perfect conditions but they are now running at roughly 80% because of manning problems,” said another MSC officer. “About 20 in the deck department can be assigned to rust prevent duty. However, that crew is also assigned to Underway Replenishment duties. Three Unreps could easily eat away an entire day. When we return to port can we OSPHO? No. Can I send a cr…

Manning problems have existed for a decade, if not more. The Navy holds the sad record of being the worst managed branch of service. Steep budget cuts in the 1990s and again during sequestration have had severe effects that the Navy hasn't yet recovered from. But I don't know whether that's the cause of the problem. The Navy is an especially unique branch given that it's the only service that revolves around a relati…

While there have been budget cuts, the US Navy’s budget went from ~80B in 2001 to over 160B today. Given what the US spends as a % of GDP, it feels like this should be more than enough. From afar, the problem appears to be decision makers in the Navy refusing to reduce scope and deciding to understaff.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#27
post #19

The Navy builds its ships with steel, and the grades of steel used in the construction can experience rust. Solutions: Switch to 100% stainless steel. Stainless steel is an alloy and contains a minimum of 11% chromium. This allows the formation of a protective film of chromium oxide which acts as a shield against rust. The protective film will re-form if damaged. Corrosion resistance can be further enhanced with the…

I don't know if there's a name for this phenomenon, but it's sort of like an invisible Chesterton's fence. "Just make them out of a different steel" feels like a idea that is elegant, but even as someone that's never built a ship, I have to imagine there's some good reason why they're built out the materials they are, and why a simple material change is unlikely to be a solution. Maybe I'm wrong (it's not like organi…

Stainless doesn’t really hold up in saltwater, with the exception of a few grades. The material properties (toughness, ductility, brittleness, weldability) can also be significantly different than non stainless.

Corten can work in less aggressive environments, but it has been known to fail to provide the expected protection in places with more acidic rain than was expected. Salt water is really aggressive.

Hot dip galvanizing does work, and is common for small boats, dock fittings, and other smaller items. There are also likely sacrificial anodes on the ship made of zinc.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#28

I think this is a good lesson that can be applied to offices and data centres. If you run your teams and equipment beyond the threshold, your equipment and team will suffer and degrade your abilities. This is a failure of leadership, and it was avoidable!

I also like the part of looking sharp, this is also a non-zero factor in any field, including IT. Between two professionals, if one looks sharp, clean and fit, while the other one does not, it is hard not to conclude one has also more self discipline.

This bias is a consequence of what Kahneman called “What You See Is All There Is.” It’s bad logic and ascribing signal when it’s actually projections of the observer.

That isn’t to say there is no effect - people might start to see themselves as more disciplined if they look sharp. “Look good, play good”, as my coach used to say.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manning problems have existed for a decade, if not more. The Navy holds the sad record of being the worst managed branch of service. Steep budget cuts in the 1990s and again during sequestration have had severe effects that the Navy hasn't yet recovered from. But I don't know whether that's the cause of the problem. The Navy is an especially unique branch given that it's the only service that revolves around a relati…

Where do you keep up with information like this? Do you have to work in the space or do you read certain periodicals or something else?

news.usni.org is a prime source of information regarding Navy matters. Defensenews, Breakingdefense are also good all-purpose sources.
Post reply on HN