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Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

talmudology.com

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Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#71

Post by TchoBeer »

User23 wrote: post #29
TchoBeer wrote: post #2

Whenever I see something about the Talmud in gentile-dominated spaces I tense up a bit. I'm not orthodox anymore, but I was orthodox for the first 20-odd years of my life so I'm in the unique position of being around a lot of gentiles but knowing a lot about Judaism and Jewish law. This article is pretty ok, but its format is probably confusing for a gentile audience. For reference: a large number of Jews do "daf yom…

If you don’t mind answering, why did you stop following the law? Also, I can relate because I feel that same tensing when I hear gentiles talking about Kabbalah.

I never found many of them particularly meaningful, and my community doesn't accept homosexuality at all. I still keep the parts I like, and I live in a orthodox-left community (if you know the school Ramaz or Frisch in New York, my friend tells me it's about that Hashkafa) I'm just not as Orthodox as my parents.

Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#72

Post by unmole »

roenxi wrote: post #69
unmole wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And negro is derived from the Spanish word for black, nothing offensive. It's almost as if intent and context matters more than etymology.

What changes if the Jews call people non-Jews v. gentiles? The context and intent is identical. Unless we just want to be offended by existance of Jews and the idea of a Jew/non-Jew divide existing.

What changes if we call people negros instead of black?

> Unless we just want to be offended by existance of Jews

If you dislike the use of a world, you must be an anti-Semite? I guess the people who dislike the Spanish derived term must be anti-Hispanic.

Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#73

Post by TchoBeer »

daniel-cussen wrote: post #38
TchoBeer wrote: post #2

Whenever I see something about the Talmud in gentile-dominated spaces I tense up a bit. I'm not orthodox anymore, but I was orthodox for the first 20-odd years of my life so I'm in the unique position of being around a lot of gentiles but knowing a lot about Judaism and Jewish law. This article is pretty ok, but its format is probably confusing for a gentile audience. For reference: a large number of Jews do "daf yom…

daf yomi! That's a great idea! I still think I will require a lifetime to read the Bible, both Testaments, I'm Christian...and it hurts so much to read the Book. I get so many psychiatric symptoms, especially when the Bible talks about conspiracies I can't deal with that I feel like conspiracies are real, I can read only very little very slowly. And it's the only literature that does that to me...apart from reading F…

>Molokai

I hope I'm not misunderstanding, but this is the last book in the books of the prophets, Malachi?

>That's the last book of Talmud, right?

The Talmud is not the old testament, and isn't even written in Hebrew, but instead is written in a very hebraicized version of Aramaic. It's almost all about Jewish law.

Also, this confused me because in the Jewish ordering books like Psalms and Esther come after Malachi, but apparently Christians order it the other way around. You learn something new every day.

Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#74

Post by TchoBeer »

mgiampapa wrote: post #45
wheels wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if I'm the only one reading that finds the term "gentile" as moderately offensive. It seems to map the world into Jewish ontology of "God's chosen people", and other. "Non-Jew" feels less abrasive since it only assumes the (obvious) existence of Judaism. I find Judaism super interesting historically (and have some Jewish ancestory and have spent a couple months in Israel), but still the term "gentile" in a m…

You are not alone, having lived in Brooklyn in Orthodox areas, I have encountered some ridiculous racism from the orthodox community. Frankly even a trip to Costco in Brooklyn will give you a huge amount of perspective on how many view non-orthodox jews as "Others" and "Non-People". That said, I also worked with the Safardic Jewish community doing tech in the garment industry and as the token gentile I was loved on a…

There are a lot of Jewish communities in Brooklyn and it's hard to know what you're referring to, but if I am correct, they're so insulated against the outside world that they could really move anywhere (and often do, for cheaper housing prices, as has happened to many a modern orthodox community)

Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#75

Post by [deleted] »

bradrn wrote: post #64
AaronFriel wrote: post #60

Whenever one finds an absurd "rule", there is, generally, a reason. You don't put up a sign that says "Don't stick utensils in electrical sockets" until someone's done it or thought about it. And if the rule is "don't juggle forks while riding a unicycle around electrical outlets", it's usually because someone lied about what happened. > Rabba said: One who fell from a roof and was inserted into a woman due to the fo…

> Whenever one finds an absurd "rule", there is, generally, a reason [that it was proposed]. ‘Generally’, but not always! Especially in the Talmud. As explained in the article, the Talmud has a strong tradition of using hypotheticals throughout to clarify edge cases in the laws. And not just here: I was taught a few pages of Talmud once (from Bava Metzia , as I recall), and most of the cases I learnt about were obvio…

[deleted]

Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#76

Post by roenxi »

unmole wrote: post #72
roenxi wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What changes if the Jews call people non-Jews v. gentiles? The context and intent is identical. Unless we just want to be offended by existance of Jews and the idea of a Jew/non-Jew divide existing.

What changes if we call people negros instead of black? > Unless we just want to be offended by existance of Jews If you dislike the use of a world, you must be an anti-Semite? I guess the people who dislike the Spanish derived term must be anti-Hispanic.

> What changes if we call people negros instead of black?

Well, they're a minority. If the majority loses control then they are at extreme risk of being hit by an ethnic cleansing or something. It can happen pretty much anywhere with only a relatively short lead-up. Picking a stupid act and making it compulsory is a classic way to keep tabs on how the wind is blowing.

There isn't really any threat like that from the Jews posed to anyone else, they don't have the numbers. There is no need to police them; indeed policing the language of minorities trying to maintain their own culture is in really bad taste. The issue with negro doesn't have anything to do with the word itself being offensive; that has the same logical problems as objecting to 'gentile' does.

Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#77

Post by leoh »

AaronFriel wrote: post #60

Whenever one finds an absurd "rule", there is, generally, a reason. You don't put up a sign that says "Don't stick utensils in electrical sockets" until someone's done it or thought about it. And if the rule is "don't juggle forks while riding a unicycle around electrical outlets", it's usually because someone lied about what happened. > Rabba said: One who fell from a roof and was inserted into a woman due to the fo…

Please, no. Do you think a bird really laid eggs in a woman’s hair and a decision needed to be made? This is a really arrogant and frustrating assertion you are making.

Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#78

Post by salgernon »

ALittleLight wrote: post #24
dylan604 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (either the owner falsely claims the piano was played or is improperly spying on the piano or tenant) Grabbing the wheel and jerking hard left... If the owner installs camera/microphones to check the piano status, that would be very creepy and leaning into the spying realm. If the owner installed sensors on the keys/hammers/strings/etc to detect movement, then I think I'd be okay with that. Those sensors would not…

Supposing the owner installed really invasive spying tools - the cameras and microphones, and used those to discover the tenant played the piano. Then, I think the owner would be guilty of whatever invasion of privacy law or tort is relevant, but the tenant would still be in breach of the contract. It would be right to punish the owner and tenant for their respective misdeeds, not say that because the owner did bad t…

What if the piano had a piece of tamper tape and the landlord saw it the next time he was doing work for the tenant. The students thought it was fishy, but there was no time line associated. (Or for that matter, the tenant may have gotten drunk and spouted off about it in the biergarten.)

Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#79

Post by unmole »

roenxi wrote: post #76
unmole wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What changes if we call people negros instead of black? > Unless we just want to be offended by existance of Jews If you dislike the use of a world, you must be an anti-Semite? I guess the people who dislike the Spanish derived term must be anti-Hispanic.

> What changes if we call people negros instead of black? Well, they're a minority. If the majority loses control then they are at extreme risk of being hit by an ethnic cleansing or something. It can happen pretty much anywhere with only a relatively short lead-up. Picking a stupid act and making it compulsory is a classic way to keep tabs on how the wind is blowing. There isn't really any threat like that from the…

Negro and gentile are both Othering. You might think that insular attitudes amongst minority communities can't have a negative effect. I respectfully disagree: https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/11/anothe...

Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#80

Post by mgiampapa »

TchoBeer wrote: post #74
mgiampapa wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not alone, having lived in Brooklyn in Orthodox areas, I have encountered some ridiculous racism from the orthodox community. Frankly even a trip to Costco in Brooklyn will give you a huge amount of perspective on how many view non-orthodox jews as "Others" and "Non-People". That said, I also worked with the Safardic Jewish community doing tech in the garment industry and as the token gentile I was loved on a…

There are a lot of Jewish communities in Brooklyn and it's hard to know what you're referring to, but if I am correct, they're so insulated against the outside world that they could really move anywhere (and often do, for cheaper housing prices, as has happened to many a modern orthodox community)

Yeah, that's the thing I don't understand. NYC is known as a melting pot of cultures and it isn't inexpensive at all, even out at the far ends of the NRD and B trains. Why be in a great cosmopolitan city if you aren't going to give your neighbor the time of day when you go out and interact? It's not like I'm talking about interactions at a Yeshiva or a Synagogue, but out doing every day things like shopping, or going to for a walk in the park.
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