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Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

talmudology.com

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Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#51

Post by bumblebritches5 »

wheels wrote: post #37
TchoBeer wrote: post #2

Whenever I see something about the Talmud in gentile-dominated spaces I tense up a bit. I'm not orthodox anymore, but I was orthodox for the first 20-odd years of my life so I'm in the unique position of being around a lot of gentiles but knowing a lot about Judaism and Jewish law. This article is pretty ok, but its format is probably confusing for a gentile audience. For reference: a large number of Jews do "daf yom…

I wonder if I'm the only one reading that finds the term "gentile" as moderately offensive. It seems to map the world into Jewish ontology of "God's chosen people", and other. "Non-Jew" feels less abrasive since it only assumes the (obvious) existence of Judaism. I find Judaism super interesting historically (and have some Jewish ancestory and have spent a couple months in Israel), but still the term "gentile" in a m…

No post body was provided.

Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#52

Post by skissane »

TchoBeer wrote: post #2

Whenever I see something about the Talmud in gentile-dominated spaces I tense up a bit. I'm not orthodox anymore, but I was orthodox for the first 20-odd years of my life so I'm in the unique position of being around a lot of gentiles but knowing a lot about Judaism and Jewish law. This article is pretty ok, but its format is probably confusing for a gentile audience. For reference: a large number of Jews do "daf yom…

> This article is pretty ok, but its format is probably confusing for a gentile audience.

As a gentile who knew about daf yomi already, I immediately got the reference. But no doubt I am far from your average gentile in that respect

Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#53

Post by skissane »

wheels wrote: post #37
TchoBeer wrote: post #2

Whenever I see something about the Talmud in gentile-dominated spaces I tense up a bit. I'm not orthodox anymore, but I was orthodox for the first 20-odd years of my life so I'm in the unique position of being around a lot of gentiles but knowing a lot about Judaism and Jewish law. This article is pretty ok, but its format is probably confusing for a gentile audience. For reference: a large number of Jews do "daf yom…

I wonder if I'm the only one reading that finds the term "gentile" as moderately offensive. It seems to map the world into Jewish ontology of "God's chosen people", and other. "Non-Jew" feels less abrasive since it only assumes the (obvious) existence of Judaism. I find Judaism super interesting historically (and have some Jewish ancestory and have spent a couple months in Israel), but still the term "gentile" in a m…

Part of why it is so common in English is not due to Jews, but rather the enduring influence of Christianity. The Jew vs Gentile distinction is historically important in Christianity, and plays a significant (albeit variable) role in many Christian theologies

Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#55

Post by SnowHill9902 »

mjfl wrote: post #40
boole1854 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gentile here, but even I tense up when I see discussions about the Talmud show up in "Gentile spaces". Some reasons: 1) Conspiracies. There's a millennia-long history of conspiracy theories involving the Talmud, and talk about the Talmud often see conspiracy theorists surface which sidetracks any rational discussion. 2) Religion. To this day, there is a significant group of religion Jews who take the Talmud extremely…

[flagged]

That’s the problem: when people read it literally. Your comment is a perfect example of why the ancestor commenter tenses up.

Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#56

Post by roenxi »

wheels wrote: post #37
TchoBeer wrote: post #2

Whenever I see something about the Talmud in gentile-dominated spaces I tense up a bit. I'm not orthodox anymore, but I was orthodox for the first 20-odd years of my life so I'm in the unique position of being around a lot of gentiles but knowing a lot about Judaism and Jewish law. This article is pretty ok, but its format is probably confusing for a gentile audience. For reference: a large number of Jews do "daf yom…

I wonder if I'm the only one reading that finds the term "gentile" as moderately offensive. It seems to map the world into Jewish ontology of "God's chosen people", and other. "Non-Jew" feels less abrasive since it only assumes the (obvious) existence of Judaism. I find Judaism super interesting historically (and have some Jewish ancestory and have spent a couple months in Israel), but still the term "gentile" in a m…

"Gentile" derives from Latin gentilis, which itself derives from the Latin gens, meaning clan or tribe. [0]

I don't think you are in a position to get offended on this one. Doesn't seem to even be a Hebrew word.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentile#Etymology

Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#57

Post by dang »

mjfl wrote: post #40
boole1854 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gentile here, but even I tense up when I see discussions about the Talmud show up in "Gentile spaces". Some reasons: 1) Conspiracies. There's a millennia-long history of conspiracy theories involving the Talmud, and talk about the Talmud often see conspiracy theorists surface which sidetracks any rational discussion. 2) Religion. To this day, there is a significant group of religion Jews who take the Talmud extremely…

[flagged]

No religious flamewar, please. Not what this site is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#58

Post by rpmisms »

Not to redirect the conversation too far, but this throws the religious dichotomy in which I was raised into sharp relief.

Specifically, I was raised Eastern Orthodox, and we hung out with SSPX (Traditional, Latin Mass, etc) Catholics. To an outsider, these may seem similar enough, but the debates we homeschooled kids got into were quite amazing.

The churches originally split due to an intentional mistranslation of the Nicene Creed, designating the Holy Spirit as proceeding from the Father and the Son, instead of from the Father alone, thus throwing off the balance of the Trinity.

Somehow, this led to us debating complex liturgical topics, which was driven by Catholics having a small-t talmudic system of canon law, which requires legal scholars to properly interpret, while the Orthodox, although having Canon Law to a lesser extent, mostly rely on "Economia", which roughly translates to "Stop thinking about stupid questions and pray more".

I specifically recall a debate over the proper method of Communion in which one of the Catholic kids asked "But what if there was no wine left in the world, what then?".

The answer actually did exist in Catholic Canon Law somewhere, but I can't remember it, and the Orthodox answer was "Make some".

Just an anecdote that some may find familiar if you like the OP.

Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#59

Post by unmole »

wheels wrote: post #37
TchoBeer wrote: post #2

Whenever I see something about the Talmud in gentile-dominated spaces I tense up a bit. I'm not orthodox anymore, but I was orthodox for the first 20-odd years of my life so I'm in the unique position of being around a lot of gentiles but knowing a lot about Judaism and Jewish law. This article is pretty ok, but its format is probably confusing for a gentile audience. For reference: a large number of Jews do "daf yom…

I wonder if I'm the only one reading that finds the term "gentile" as moderately offensive. It seems to map the world into Jewish ontology of "God's chosen people", and other. "Non-Jew" feels less abrasive since it only assumes the (obvious) existence of Judaism. I find Judaism super interesting historically (and have some Jewish ancestory and have spent a couple months in Israel), but still the term "gentile" in a m…

> I wonder if I'm the only one reading that finds the term "gentile" as moderately offensive.

You're not the only one. The use of the Latin derived gentile seems like a clear case of Othering.

Re: Bizarre Talmudic Scenarios

#60

Post by AaronFriel »

Whenever one finds an absurd "rule", there is, generally, a reason. You don't put up a sign that says "Don't stick utensils in electrical sockets" until someone's done it or thought about it.

And if the rule is "don't juggle forks while riding a unicycle around electrical outlets", it's usually because someone lied about what happened.

> Rabba said: One who fell from a roof and was inserted into a woman due to the force of his fall is liable to pay four of the five types of indemnity that must be paid by one who damaged another, and if she is his yevama he has not acquired her in this manner. He is liable to pay for injury, pain, loss of livelihood, and medical costs. However, he is not liable to pay for the shame he caused her, as the Master said: One is not liable to pay for shame unless he intends to humiliate his victim…

This is a description of a rape, and the person who committed it came up with a story to explain it away, and the Talmud has codified this excuse as justifying a modest penalty, and it's recorded in such a way that others may use it. "Ah, sorry [your honor or equivalent], I fell off a roof, you see, and ...". Awful.

The only thing one should learn from this is that the Talmud can be wrong, that sometimes, people lie and cover up their crimes, and that whoever recorded this case abetted the criminal. That's wrong and we should do better.

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