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The Contractual Impossibility of Unwinding Disney’s Reedy Creek

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201–210 of 220 posts

Re: The Contractual Impossibility of Unwinding Disney’s Reedy Creek

#201

While I appreciate a clear explanation of the legal situation surrounding the Reedy Creek bonds, I am still pretty amazed that the fact of a Governor of a state saying explicitly "we are going to punish a corporation for speaking out about our legislation" has not generated more pushback. I don't think that corporations are people, nor do they deserve the full protection of the first amendment (particularly those inc…

"Support me on this I'll support you on that" is typical and routine in the halls of legislators, although much quieter. If we look at this as DeSantis telling Disney "support me on this legislation and I'll support more of your self-governing district" it doesn't sound nearly as bad. It kinda happens all the time, everywhere laws and sausages are made.

Re: The Contractual Impossibility of Unwinding Disney’s Reedy Creek

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was referring to the numerous stories I have seen in the media by left leaning pundits since Musk’s offer arguing censorship as a “good thing”.

I'm pointing out that it's weird to act as if it's a "Democrat" thing in a thread about literal, state mandated censorship on the other side. This is a personal bugbear of mine, but almost everyone actually agrees that "censorship" is a good thing, they just call it "moderation" when they happen to agree with what is being censored. The two terms are fundamentally synonyms with different connotations, and there's no…

>spam, child porn, and "shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater" being the three most common examples.

Two of your three are not free speech issues—-spam is completely legal in the US. Child porn is not, but not because speech limitations but because it victimizes and is violence against children. One (yelling fire in a crowded theater) is brought out pretty regularly as a legal limit on free speech…but technically it isn’t against the law. It’s an emotional reasoning why you might consider limiting free speech, but if I walked into a theater and yelled fire, I would not be prosecuted for what I said.

Re: The Contractual Impossibility of Unwinding Disney’s Reedy Creek

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was referring to the numerous stories I have seen in the media by left leaning pundits since Musk’s offer arguing censorship as a “good thing”.

I'm pointing out that it's weird to act as if it's a "Democrat" thing in a thread about literal, state mandated censorship on the other side. This is a personal bugbear of mine, but almost everyone actually agrees that "censorship" is a good thing, they just call it "moderation" when they happen to agree with what is being censored. The two terms are fundamentally synonyms with different connotations, and there's no…

> I'm pointing out that it's weird to act as if it's a "Democrat" thing in a thread about literal, state mandated censorship on the other side.

I pointed out that the optics of the Reedy Creek repeal and some other recent events was causing some democrats to take public positions contrary to their platform history. I made no claim that the GOP was right or wrong here. Evaluating purely from a political tactic, if you can make your base happy and cause your opponents to disregard their long held beliefs to counter you, that is clever politics.

Re: The Contractual Impossibility of Unwinding Disney’s Reedy Creek

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And, to keep stoking the fires of the culture wars. It's slimy and dishonest to pretend that only republicans are fighting a culture war when the bulk of the progressive platform is explicitly about changing US culture. It's like calling Ukraine the aggressor for defending against the Russian invasion.

The issue is not whether Republicans are the only ones fighting a culture war. It's about whether the Republicans are only fighting a culture war. What are their policies on healthcare? Infrastructure investment and repair? Climate change? Transportation policy? Childhood poverty? Topsoil depletion in the midwest? Extreme severe drought in the southwest? etc. etc. Why do they appear to spend so much time talking abou…

I'm not sure policies matter much in the end. If I went into a coma before election night 2016 and woke up today, how would I tell we just had four years of a hard-right authoritarian government and we are now about a year and three months into a moderate center-left government?

I have to be honest it's not a night-and-day difference.

Re: The Contractual Impossibility of Unwinding Disney’s Reedy Creek

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is not whether Republicans are the only ones fighting a culture war. It's about whether the Republicans are only fighting a culture war. What are their policies on healthcare? Infrastructure investment and repair? Climate change? Transportation policy? Childhood poverty? Topsoil depletion in the midwest? Extreme severe drought in the southwest? etc. etc. Why do they appear to spend so much time talking abou…

I'm not sure policies matter much in the end. If I went into a coma before election night 2016 and woke up today, how would I tell we just had four years of a hard-right authoritarian government and we are now about a year and three months into a moderate center-left government? I have to be honest it's not a night-and-day difference.

Nobody could tell; that's why we have cloth masks to differentiate ourselves.

Re: The Contractual Impossibility of Unwinding Disney’s Reedy Creek

#206
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is not whether Republicans are the only ones fighting a culture war. It's about whether the Republicans are only fighting a culture war. What are their policies on healthcare? Infrastructure investment and repair? Climate change? Transportation policy? Childhood poverty? Topsoil depletion in the midwest? Extreme severe drought in the southwest? etc. etc. Why do they appear to spend so much time talking abou…

> It is far from clear what the conservative/Republican equivalent of this is. Amount of brown people in their voters neighborhood

This doesn't work in Florida.

Re: The Contractual Impossibility of Unwinding Disney’s Reedy Creek

#207

While I appreciate a clear explanation of the legal situation surrounding the Reedy Creek bonds, I am still pretty amazed that the fact of a Governor of a state saying explicitly "we are going to punish a corporation for speaking out about our legislation" has not generated more pushback. I don't think that corporations are people, nor do they deserve the full protection of the first amendment (particularly those inc…

> this just seems blatantly, clearly, obviously unconstitutional and yet there's been nary a peep about that aspect of it.

I think you could say much the same thing about a for-profit corporation running its own private government.

Re: The Contractual Impossibility of Unwinding Disney’s Reedy Creek

#208

While I appreciate a clear explanation of the legal situation surrounding the Reedy Creek bonds, I am still pretty amazed that the fact of a Governor of a state saying explicitly "we are going to punish a corporation for speaking out about our legislation" has not generated more pushback. I don't think that corporations are people, nor do they deserve the full protection of the first amendment (particularly those inc…

"Support me on this I'll support you on that" is typical and routine in the halls of legislators, although much quieter. If we look at this as DeSantis telling Disney "support me on this legislation and I'll support more of your self-governing district" it doesn't sound nearly as bad. It kinda happens all the time, everywhere laws and sausages are made.

That isn't what DeSantis said at all. Disney had already spoken, DeSantis said "because you said that, kiss your special district goodbye". This was no backroom deal.

Re: The Contractual Impossibility of Unwinding Disney’s Reedy Creek

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is not whether Republicans are the only ones fighting a culture war. It's about whether the Republicans are only fighting a culture war. What are their policies on healthcare? Infrastructure investment and repair? Climate change? Transportation policy? Childhood poverty? Topsoil depletion in the midwest? Extreme severe drought in the southwest? etc. etc. Why do they appear to spend so much time talking abou…

I'm not sure policies matter much in the end. If I went into a coma before election night 2016 and woke up today, how would I tell we just had four years of a hard-right authoritarian government and we are now about a year and three months into a moderate center-left government? I have to be honest it's not a night-and-day difference.

About a year after Trump's election, I found myself thinking along similar lines. I mean, his administration made very little difference in my life, or the lives of anyone I know. Yes, I could be empathetic towards people whose lives I mostly just read about. But realistically, I had no actual evidence of any impact.

Then I met up with a very old friend of mine. Successful SV VC guy. Incredibly smart. Incredibly human. Probably reads Hacker News (actually, scratch that). Happens to be of Indian ancestry, though he grew up in Davis, CA. Very wealthy thanks to a few good choices made after he dropped out of his PhD program. So yeah, maybe he didn't have my middle class white anglo privilege going on, but if there's a ladder, I had always assumed he was only 1 or 2 rungs below me, at worst.

As it turns out, no. Trump's election had made him adopt a policy of no longer engaging in any business travel to anywhere in the USA except major metropolitan areas. Was it paranoid? I don't feel equipped to comment. But that was the verdict of a guy that I respect enormously for his intelligence and his decision making processes. He felt too unsafe in Trump's America to visit mid-size towns in Iowa.

So, when you say:

> I have to be honest it's not a night-and-day difference.

I'd advise checking in with some brown people you know (or don't know). Some immigrants not yet moved into citizenship. Someone in any group that Trump verbally attacked. Because I felt the same way until my friend gently but forcefully told me that I had no idea what the fuck I was talking about if I was trying to generalize from my own experience.

Re: The Contractual Impossibility of Unwinding Disney’s Reedy Creek

#210
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is: it wouldn't be anonymous to the politicians it's supporting, however it's on the books. Most corporations don't actually care about politics, beyond (1) What's good for my business? & (2) What's good PR? The interesting thing about Disney is that in this case they were caught between a contradictory (1) & (2). Which, to the parent's point, a more adept PR department / anonymous donations wouldn't have a…

Disney's public statement is worth far more than any donation. It's an American icon, a local behemoth, and a cultural institution.

It's a soulless corporation, and ascribing its motives to anything other than a currently-calculated maximizing of self-preservation and growth is delusion.
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