Live data from Hacker News

There Is No CD Revival

dadadrummer.substack.com

121–130 of 201 posts

Re: There Is No CD Revival

#121
post #45

I still buy Music CDs. Why? Because once I have the disc in my hand, no-one can legally take it away from me. I can enjoy the contents legally until I'm dead, all for a single one-off payment with no-expiry. However, my households use of streaming media (mainly Spotify) has increased for 'casual' listening, so I think there is a balance, and I hope that buying physical media for music wont disappear completely any ti…

On the one hand, you seem to (understandably) take great pride in the legal ownership of your CDs, but on the other hand, you're almost certainly breaking the law by ripping them. How do you feel about that? I have the same conflict with DVDs/BluRay. I want to play by the rules and pay for the media I enjoy, but it's absurd that it's illegal for me to rip the content that I've lawfully purchased for my own consumptio…

If you're ripping CDs that you purchased and only for your own personal use (i.e. not distributing the ripped files), then IMO the far more relevant question is an ethical one: does what you're doing in any way harm the artists or the copyright holders of the works you are copying?

Re: There Is No CD Revival

#122

> And streaming is not returning enough to musicians for them to survive; it is only serving to increase income inequality in our industry. The revival we need, urgently, is of recorded music income - and that revival is not coming from silver discs. The fundamental problem is that streaming income is distributed as a percentage of total (worldwide) plays, instead of being normalized as a percentage of plays per list…

If everyone listened to the same amount of music in proportion to the amount they're paying it wouldn't matter which way the royalties were calculated, as the artists would get the same amount either way. Money is fungible, so it doesn't matter whether they get your subscription fee or a much smaller slice of all the subscriptions as long as you listening to their music leads to them getting at least $7.50 extra that month.

The discrepancy is in the fact that those who listen to less music on a flat-rate plan pay more per track, which is not accounted for in the "percentage of worldwide plays" metric. If there are, say, an average of 100 tracks played per subscriber per month, and you play 1000 tracks from your favorite indie artist (even non-exclusively), they're actually doing better with this "worldwide plays" metric than they would otherwise—each play is worth about 7.5¢ ($7.50 for 100 plays), so they'd get $75 based on your activity. You contribute more plays but not more money compared to other subscribers, which means other subscribers are subsidizing your music preferences. However, if you only listen to 10 tracks per month, even if they're all from the same artist, the situation is more like what you described, with most of your subscription going to support artists you don't listen to. In this case they'd only get 75¢ of your $7.50.

So to optimize the royalties to your favorite artists, the real question is: Do you (and other fans of indie music) listen to more music than the average subscriber, or less?

Re: There Is No CD Revival

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everybody did the same amount of listening the two schemes would be the same. Since they don't, your proposed scheme gives an outsize vote to people who listen less. The current scheme gives a bigger vote to those who listen more. Spend more time than average listening and your preferred bands will get more money from the royalty pool than you put in.

That math is incorrect. Imagine a simplified world with 100 listeners. They are all average listeners and listen to 10 songs per day, for a total of 1000 plays per day. 99 are pop fans and listen entirely to top 20. 1 is an outlier and listens entirely to jazz. Royalty payments are $10/mo per user. ie every month there's $1,000 to be split between artists. Under Spotify's current scheme, top 20 artists receive ($1,00…

> Under Spotify's current scheme, top 20 artists receive ($1,000 * (999/1000)) = $999 dollars. Jazz artists get $1.

There are 1000 plays per day (total) and 990 of those are pop—not 999. Pop artists receive ($1,000 * (990/1000)) = $990 dollars. Jazz artists get ($1,000 * (10/1000)) = $10. Which is the same as your proposed scheme, because everyone listens to the same amount of music.

If the jazz fan listened to five songs per day, all else being equal, then the current scheme would allocate ($1,000 * (5/995)) = $5.025 to jazz and ($1,000 * (990/995)) = $994.975 to pop. Which is clearly a bit unfair since the service is being paid $10 for the jazz and $990 for the pop.

However, if the jazz fan listened to 20 songs per day then under the current scheme jazz would get ($1,000 * (20/1010)) = $19.80 and pop would get ($1,000 * (990/1010)) = $980.20. Which is also a bit unfair, but in the other direction. The current scheme isn't necessarily biased against small artists, but rather against subscribers who don't listen to much music, and the artists they prefer.

Re: There Is No CD Revival

#124
post #117
post #2

Many times, buying the CD and ripping it to FLAC* is the only way to legally acquire* music for use with your computer. * It must be lossless and high quality. * It must work offline.

Have you done a blind test comparing a 256 or 320 kbps AAC file to a FLAC one? At that bitrate, the AAC file is lossy in the sense that you can't recreate a bit-for-bit perfect copy of the original, but most humans shouldn't hear any difference. A decent proxy to know that this is true is that at those bitrates, a FLAC file is often smaller than the AAC one. Yes, this makes you wonder why you'd want to use an lossy f…

That's also dependent on your headphones. I might have shitty earbuds today, but in the future when I might have 3D "puts the sound directly into your brain" phones, I might tell the difference

Re: There Is No CD Revival

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. If the CD has DRM, bypassing that DRM for a personal copy is a crime. If there's no DRM, I believe creating a personal copy is acceptable.

The CD format doesn't support DRM. Extremely few CDs tried to fiddle to add it by adding errors, but modern readers aren't stopped from reading the audio. CDs are pure audio data with error correction.

CDs do have copy protection flags. This is unrelated to the intentionally corrupt pressed discs meant to subvert CD-R recorders.

Re: There Is No CD Revival

#126
post #45

I still buy Music CDs. Why? Because once I have the disc in my hand, no-one can legally take it away from me. I can enjoy the contents legally until I'm dead, all for a single one-off payment with no-expiry. However, my households use of streaming media (mainly Spotify) has increased for 'casual' listening, so I think there is a balance, and I hope that buying physical media for music wont disappear completely any ti…

>I think while CDs (and DVDs, and Blu-rays) are still being sold, they should 100% shift to carboard packaging instead of plastic.

Hard disagree.

I sold my large collection of records recently, for 2 reasons.

1. Because I realized I hadn't listened to effectively any of them in the past 5 years, across 2 house moves. I'm leaving on travel soon and may work abroad in the future, so better to liquidate now than later.

2. My entire collection had that "vintage" stink, aka mold/mildew/etc. I had mixed old and new records together, which effectively tainted the outer cardboard of the records. This caused me a serious amount of stress and anxiety (which is a separate problem to resolve) to the extent that I rushed selling the records to a record store (which I have minor regrets about, blog write-up to come on this all).

This all to say, while I really do dislike how plastic dependent we've become in society, from everything like fruits and plastic bags, I LOVE that CDs come in jewelcases for 3 distinct reasons

1. The plastic CD case protects the CD, and the inner paper booklet, from damage and other external factors, if stored properly. Also, cardboard cases for CDs often don't include inner booklet notes, which is disappointing. Cardboard CD cases are less resilient to damage as well.

I personally need some plastic archival bags (and if you can recommend some, please do), because I want to avoid my CDs coming to a similar fate as my vinyl. I found a few that caught a bit of a stink recently, and hurriedly cleaned the exterior cases (another benefit).

2. The plastic cases help with management and organization of the physical collection very easily, as every case is effectively the same size. While there are some slimline CD releases, and of course cardboard or double/deluxe CD releases, for single CD releases they all conform to the same size, making require space estimates and stacking very convenient to do.

3. Extremely easy to replace if damaged, dirty, smelly, etc. You can buy new blank CD cases so easily, and if you can't find an exact replacement, similar cases could be found. This is one reason I dislike vinyl cardboard covers: if the cover is damaged or stinky/moldy/etc enough, you're screwed. Throw it out, but good luck finding just a cover replacement. Whereas with a CD, you can get a digital copy of the inner booklet and CD one way or another, and remake a new physical copy if desired. Obviously, that's done for personal consumption only.

By extension of that last note, I want to say I love CDs for the fact that they're robust, reliable, DRM-free (excluding previous cases), high quality, and identical every play.

/end my input /start personal rant

Having the power to own your media physically and digitally is another benefit (by ripping the CD). I also love that many CDs come with the inner booklet which often contains interviews, lyrics, bonus photos, or other fun content that wouldn't be found in a vinyl release. I do admit that vinyl releases are beautiful with the large print 12" covers, but how many records do you realistically prop up on a shelf somewhere?

We moved off VHS tapes to DVD, and Blu-Ray has been around for years now, and yet despite that DVDs are still produced. I don't forsee any kind of death of CD or DVD in the near future, especially as more streaming services pull back or move media in and out of their catalogues; increasing costs don't help either.

Also separate side note, the case for a vinyl record being an involved process I agree with. I would say that limiting CD purchases per month could be viewed in a similar fashion, buying 1-3 a month and listening to each through.

Keep on collecting!

Re: There Is No CD Revival

#127
post #106
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I think this is why vinyl has taken off. It is much more physical then a CD. The artwork is larger and it just feels more personable. You have to be much more careful with it, and listening to it is a bigger investment. And a collection of vinyl looks great. I think a similar trend has happened with books. Certainly, e-readers are awesome. But for some things, you really want to have a physical copy. And in t…

The technical merits of vinyl are dubious. But it is undeniably the coolest way to listen to music. It takes effort, it is an event, a ritual executed with great care.

May as well get your coolness with cylinder recordings.

Re: There Is No CD Revival

#128
post #45

I still buy Music CDs. Why? Because once I have the disc in my hand, no-one can legally take it away from me. I can enjoy the contents legally until I'm dead, all for a single one-off payment with no-expiry. However, my households use of streaming media (mainly Spotify) has increased for 'casual' listening, so I think there is a balance, and I hope that buying physical media for music wont disappear completely any ti…

There are a few good providers of lossless audio files, so you can get still get a lossless, DRM free version of your music to own forever without having to have a printed CD. The two that I frequent are: - bandcamp.com - mostly indie, but I've actually purchased a few more "mainstream" artists from here in the last couple years. - hdtracks.com - have a wide selection, but tend to be pretty pricey.

I'm worried about bandcamp.com after being purchased by Epic Games. BC's terms of service and privacy policy were updated to reflect this change, mostly legal ownership and related stuff, but I feel they're going to do the regular acquisition process: wait a year or so, make a detrimental change to the service, piss off a lot of people.

Re: There Is No CD Revival

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had ~1100 CDs in 2000. Now I have close to 0. I don't even own a device I could play a CD in nor rip it. None of my 4 PCs (3 Macs, one Gaming Windows Box) have a CD (nor DVD nor Bluray) player. Instead I have about 9000 mp3 files. I find streaming services frustrating because their recommendation algorithm suck. I tried playing "Swing" and it gave me "Volare" by Dean Martin. (that's not Swing), I pick Prince Radio…

You can't control the quality of purchased music files. More significantly, you can't be sure that gapless playback has been encoded correctly into anything sold by the track. I continue to purchase music on CDs but they get used once while being ripped then go into storage.

There are places where you can buy very high quality music files without needing a physical CD.

Re: There Is No CD Revival

#130

If I'm buying physical media in 2022 that I actually need to find from a shelf and put into a player it either needs to be of higher quality than the digital option or have something else going for it. Thus, it's LP's for music in my case. The cover art alone is worth it. For movies and TV, I have the cream of the crop on physical Bluray or DVD, the ones that I want to see even if there is a license pissing contest b…

LPs are not higher quality.
Post reply on HN