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Is everything falling apart?

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Re: Is everything falling apart?

#351

Post by mikkergp »

umvi wrote: post #232
macintux wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d just be happy if we could agree on basic facts. I don’t expect everyone to agree on the right way to solve a problem, but it seems increasingly difficult to even come to a common understanding of what’s true and what’s not.

You would think cold hard data would be lead everyone to the same truth of a situation, but the problem is that in reality, data can be tortured to confess to anything. Data is constantly weaponized by everyone to push the narrative they want to believe, whether the data is about guns, violence, education, covid, racism, drugs, etc, data can be tortured to tell nearly any story by people wanting a specific narrative.…

But data can't encapsulate values. My friend sent me a chart asking why were pushing vaccines for kids when only .001% of kids were dying from COVID. I looked at the chart and saw that 1000 kids had died from COVID and thought 1000 kids have died from COVID!?! There's no objective way to agree on whether a number is high or low. A lot of values transcend the underlying data, even when "the science is on your side". I can't imagine any data that would change my values around abortion access or gay marriage.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#352

Post by oicU00 »

drugstorecowboy wrote: post #334
oicU00 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah no doubt; I collate trends into reports for rich investors. Lately they have been focused on youth trends, and some numbers are wacky. 40% point drop in 16 year olds getting a license since the 80s as urbanization puts people closer to stuff and ride share appeared. Youth participation in sports, especially full contact sports, had been going down since before covid which just accelerated it, leading to forec…

> “Essential workers” are pretty fucking pissed millions sat on their ass with no clue how to feed or care for themselves. They are not showing the same allegiance to shit jobs and moving on. They never had allegiance, they didn't leave shit jobs because of fear and the fact that moving between 2 minimum wage jobs likely wouldn't improve their circumstances. People are switching jobs because its an option now where i…

People are not concepts. There’s a real difference in QOL between an office worker and a retail worker.

You can ramble off the memes etched into your meat based tape recorder all day long; others do not owe putting agency into routines you prefer to avoid.

Such sentiment approaches thought policing. You are still one of seven billion to those other meat bases tape recorders.

One cannot wave away reality for philosophy.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#353

Post by groby_b »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #344
b112 wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the 60s was far, far, far more disillusioned than this.

Everything that happened to a Baby Boomer was the most extreme ever. All other generations before Baby Boomers and since the Baby Boomers have had an easier time than the Baby Boomers. Their experiences are the Alpha and the Omega of human experience. When they die, the universe probably will cease to exist.

That, frankly, would be a small price to pay to stop hearing arguments about specialness of that generation.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#354

Post by _gabe_ »

giantg2 wrote: post #173
macintux wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d just be happy if we could agree on basic facts. I don’t expect everyone to agree on the right way to solve a problem, but it seems increasingly difficult to even come to a common understanding of what’s true and what’s not.

Do you have an example of that? I haven't seen a lot of debate about the data (facts), but usually it's about the information (how it was formed from the data). Of course there are a small group of leaders (and/or crackpots) on either side spreading blatantly false info, but I feel that's rather small and receives outsized coverage.

I think one of the most basic facts that we can't agree on is what constitutes a man or a woman. It's a very simple problem that a 5 year old can point out, yet we somehow lost sight of this very basic fact.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#355

Post by rabuse »

drugstorecowboy wrote: post #334
oicU00 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah no doubt; I collate trends into reports for rich investors. Lately they have been focused on youth trends, and some numbers are wacky. 40% point drop in 16 year olds getting a license since the 80s as urbanization puts people closer to stuff and ride share appeared. Youth participation in sports, especially full contact sports, had been going down since before covid which just accelerated it, leading to forec…

> “Essential workers” are pretty fucking pissed millions sat on their ass with no clue how to feed or care for themselves. They are not showing the same allegiance to shit jobs and moving on. They never had allegiance, they didn't leave shit jobs because of fear and the fact that moving between 2 minimum wage jobs likely wouldn't improve their circumstances. People are switching jobs because its an option now where i…

"Waste of their time". Is binging a Netflix series more important than having survival skills?

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#356

Post by Teknoman117 »

jaqalopes wrote: post #7

I think some things are falling apart but not everything. If you had the foresight/luck/guidance to get into a stable white collar career, find a partner, and buy a house before 2022 I think you're on "the train". This train is currently pulling away from a burning station containing everyone else who hasn't done those things yet. It's still possible to escape the station by running down the tracks but at this point…

Crap. One of three for me. I'd have had a house by now if it weren't for the fact I had to pay back $120k in student loans. Heavy drain on my finances for years. Finally paid the damn things off earlier this year. In some ways I did the stupid thing by moving to an area where the property costs were beyond me, but it's where the people I know live. I was so very alone where I was before.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#357

Post by dukeofdoom »

If the democracy is actually working and elections not fortified, why do so many US politicians predate the collapse of the Soviet Union. Things seem like they are falling apart because these people have been holding on to power for generations.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#358

Post by juanjmanfredi »

boh wrote: post #243

Things collapsing has been a predominant sentiment in every modern generation. It's unprecedented because of our collective amnesia, that regards the familiar as a stable starting point rather than a random moment in a volatile reality. Journalism was a tawdry, un-respectable business since its conception, but experienced a brief period of valor around the mid-twentieth century when industry concentration, Cold War e…

I agree with your first two paragraphs.

To the extent that our present time is at all unique, I subscribe to Robert Putnam's thesis that much of what we see today can be explained by the drop in social capital in American life over the past several decades. Less socialization means less trust in other Americans or in the government, fewer norms of reciprocity and trustworthiness, and increased polarization. There are various reasons for this, television being a prominent example. Surprisingly, it seems as though these trends were firmly in place well before the internet or 24 hour news came along.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#359

Post by [deleted] »

andrewclunn wrote: post #328
NationalPark wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your summary is obscuring some of the nuance in that data. What it shows is that independent voters self-identify as "lean rep"/"lean dem" based on their approval of the current president, which is low right now. Historically though, self-identified independents lean dem more than they lean rep (data in your link). Consider that the last time a Republican presidential candidate won the popular vote was in 200…

You break out a poll to cast a group as fringe. Other people bring up other polls (more recent ones) to counter that argument, and then you shift to a different line of evidence citing "historical trends." Please, take this advice to heart, you are clearly trying to justify a conclusion with whatever evidence you can grab at hand. Take a step back and ask yourself if tribal loyalty is clouding your judgement. We are…

[deleted]

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#360

Post by mbg721 »

floren wrote: post #259
giantg2 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It seems "compromise" is increasingly used as "What I'm proposing should be considered the compromise and you should listen to me". There's no real debate. Nobody tries to address the other side's concerns. And then we do have, as you say, some fundamental differences in world views and experiences that sometimes form an impasse.

As someone who follows gun laws, "compromise" often takes this form: Lawmakers: "We intend to outlaw all semi-automatic rifles with scary black stocks" Gun owners: "Please don't do that." Lawmakers: "Ok, let's compromise, we'll only outlaw scary rifles with collapsing stocks and vertical handgrips on the front." (time passes) Lawmakers: "There is a terrible loophole in our gun regulations..."

I've heard that the definition of "assault rifle" is mainly cosmetic; to what extent is that true?
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