Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is everything falling apart?

nonzero.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 970 posts

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#111

Post by ravenstine »

Everything is not falling apart, though certain institutions may be falling apart.

In America, there's definitely been a breakdown of belief in its own institutions. Far more people are skeptical of things like journalism and Silicon Valley; it really wasn't that long ago that the former was constantly salivating over the latter, but now it's more of an openly vulture-carrion relationship because that caters to public sentiment. People who I would consider "normies" even don't trust law enforcement and the FBI anymore (not that they ever should have). Even the education system from K12 to college is increasingly being seen as a joke and an outright racket. We also went from the President being a more respected position to one deserving of relentless tabloid gossip. Even if one's "guy" is in office, I don't think we feel the same about it the way we did even as recent as Obama, and his administration was when we really began to see the social cracks forming.

Civilization ebbs and flows, but I think the current sentiment is unprecedented in my lifetime. This is not a high point by any stretch of the imagination, and while I see "everything is collapsing" to be hyperbolic, it seems inevitable that many things we thought were rock solid are in a transition period where either they will reform or one day be replaced with force of some kind.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#112

Post by throwaway15908 »

namelessoracle wrote: post #73

The elephant in the room is that the Industrial world wanted alot of people, and the post Industrial world does not. Not only in terms of production, but in terms of having a livable environment for everyone. So what happens to what are now "excess" people? The answer to that question is gonna define pretty much everything.

This is dangerous bs. Easy to swallow for the uneducated masses.

Putting all moral consideration aside, imagine you could totally depopulate two continents of your choosing. Why should any problem of modern economics be solved by that?

The concept of depopulation is simple enough to fit in a single sentence, it leaves out the real problem and its vast complexity (our linear economies and lifestyles attached to it), conveniently some one else is to blame and with all that, it is compatible to xenophobia. It ticks all boxes.

Of course, no problem would be fixed, the only thing you would buy with depopulation is time. The real problem is our unsustainable system, which is independent from any population count.

>We are too many people for what?

Is the question you fail to ask and answer. And going further this path of stupidly easy enemy stereotypes leads to all the societal atrocities you may have heard of.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#113

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

throwawayN0W wrote: post #12
incomingpain wrote: post #2

Yesterday I made the comment "everything is collapsing underneath" though there's context etc. I think the better way to say it. "Is everything falling apart for the USA?" Yes indeed. Most other countries have problems. Sure Sri Lanka has the same problems. Sure the middle east just went through the same problems and some states are still enduring civil war. Though from what I can tell it's mostly the USA in this 'fa…

You are missing bias. Elons "graph" only shows the left moving away, like they were running away from the globalists lovin satanist-migrants. Or maybe just climate scientists? This entire "blaming wokeism" is just identity tribalism form the other side. How come you fail to realize ...

Well, the big reason I'm skeptical is that the group of people who don't like "wokeism" seem to have pretty diverse identities. It's hard for me to see many similarities between irreligious business magnate Elon Musk, vaguely Catholic political blogger Andrew Sullivan, and my full time Baptist preacher cousin-in-law - I'm not sure I could identify any other policy question they all agree on.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#115

Post by 300bps »

Shaddox wrote: post #46

I hope I am not being too inflammatory by saying this but it's ... quite amusing how sheltered Americans are in thinking that a little political tension is a danger to their own country. Bosnia was about to be destroyed and more recently, attempted to be divided by neighbors and they're still fine. Look at anywhere that's not Americas or Western Europe.

quite amusing how sheltered Americans are in thinking that a little political tension is a danger to their own country

As an American, allow me to be even more inflammatory. Americans think that everything is falling apart because we've collectively never had a real problem in our life.

The amazing thing is as an American, I can ignore TV, all sources of news, fights on Facebook, etc. I've done it for years. Nothing bad happens. In fact the only effect is that I am blissfully unaware of all the minutia that are leading people to believe everything is falling apart.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#116

Post by _usr1 »

rank0 wrote: post #68
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Strong men" make fascism, not good times. It's pretty much the definition of fascism - a delusional paternalistic idiot infecting everyone around him with his own neuroses and narcissism, in the name of "patriotism" and "respect."

I can’t understand what you’re trying to convey. The terms fascist and nazi seem to have lost all meaning nowadays…at least to the far left.

Good god, enough with this "fascist and nazi seem to have lost all meaning" nonsense. Let's call it the "No true fascist fallacy". I could bring the corpse of Himmler here and some people would regurgitate the same "Bu-bu-but that's not actually fascist enough!". OP was basically quoting the definition of Ur-fascism by Umberto Eco. Is that historically accurate enough for you? Or should we check beforehand if whoever he was referring to has ever took part in the Salo republic, before we commit the grave sin of not being taxonomically accurate?

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#117

Post by goodpoint »

rank0 wrote: post #68
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Strong men" make fascism, not good times. It's pretty much the definition of fascism - a delusional paternalistic idiot infecting everyone around him with his own neuroses and narcissism, in the name of "patriotism" and "respect."

I can’t understand what you’re trying to convey. The terms fascist and nazi seem to have lost all meaning nowadays…at least to the far left.

On the contrary, historic fascism was obsessed with masculinity, strength, nationalism and created an environment of narcissism and cynicism.

It's well documented by historians.

TheOtherHobbes is using the term correctly.

To the naysayers: I recommend you travel and visit museums.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#118

Post by marginalia_nu »

nine_k wrote: post #103
marginalia_nu wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, there have been institutions with almost absurd longevity in history. The catholic church has stood largely unchanged for the 1600 odd years between Constantine and Vatican II. Ancient Egypt was already thousands of years old when Socrates harassed aristocrats in Athens. It's very easy to forget that the revolutions of Britain, France, America, Russia; it happened just a few generations ago, and upended most of t…

Sorry, I'm not entirely convinced. Egypt, even though it was still intact by the times of Socrates, has had a number of changes and shake-ups, rises, falls, attempts to change the ancient state religion, etc. Britain had the Glorious Revolution in 1688, the Magna Carta which amounts to a major revolution was enacted in 1215, and the Norman conquest happened in 1066. All these major events hardly occurred "a few gener…

The British revolution, which is the first revolution, is still fairly recent on a historical timescale (and the later revolutions would arguably reshape Britain more than the British one ever did). My point is exactly that 2-300 years is not a particularly long time.

> Egypt, even though it was still intact by the times of Socrates, has had a number of changes and shake-ups, rises, falls, attempts to change the ancient state religion, etc.

There were some dynastic changes and bumps along the road, absolutely, but my point is the overall shape of Egypt was remarkably stable even through the Persian conquest.

Nothing comparable to modernity.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#119

Post by myth_drannon »

watwut wrote: post #69
Shaddox wrote: post #46

I hope I am not being too inflammatory by saying this but it's ... quite amusing how sheltered Americans are in thinking that a little political tension is a danger to their own country. Bosnia was about to be destroyed and more recently, attempted to be divided by neighbors and they're still fine. Look at anywhere that's not Americas or Western Europe.

Contrapoint: it is actually good for Americans to worry about whether democracy will be destroyed in their country. Complacency and ignoring issues with "there are other countries that got it worst" may sounds smart or "worldwide-inclusive", but does not help neither Bosnians nor Americans. Possibly the most politically apathetic nation is Russia .. and where it got them. Political apathy is what you get in autocraci…

Well look at Israel, it had so many wars(some it almost lost). I would argue it made it stronger, more cohesive. I hope the same happens to Ukraine, despite the price it is paying.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#120

Post by incomingpain »

mikkergp wrote: post #14
incomingpain wrote: post #2

Yesterday I made the comment "everything is collapsing underneath" though there's context etc. I think the better way to say it. "Is everything falling apart for the USA?" Yes indeed. Most other countries have problems. Sure Sri Lanka has the same problems. Sure the middle east just went through the same problems and some states are still enduring civil war. Though from what I can tell it's mostly the USA in this 'fa…

> Blaming social media is not legitimate in my opinion; social media will be what fixes this. The fix to the USA falling apart is free and open discussions between the camps. This is what Elon is planning to do with twitter. I’m skeptical that he can fundamentally change the incentives that make social media amplify extremist views over moderate views. “The other side is terrible” will always get more engagement than…

>I’m skeptical that he can fundamentally change the incentives that make social media amplify extremist views over moderate views. “The other side is terrible” will always get more engagement than “we should work together”, even with validated identities.

There have been a ton of Elon doubters over the last 10 years.

I hope he is successful. We must get people back to the same team.

Post reply on HN