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Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

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Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#71

Post by [deleted] »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #66
aww_dang wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value >The subjective theory of value is an economic theory which advances the idea that the value of a good is not determined by any inherent property, nor by the amount of labor necessary to produce it, but instead is determined by the importance an acting individual places on a good for the achievement of his desired ends.

The subjective theory of value --- where worth is only determined by what someone will pay. A theory fully embraced by every con artist --- and crypto fan. In other words, the title you bought to the Golden Gate Bridge is worth whatever you can con some other like-minded fool into paying you for it. The obvious problem here being that worth and value is based on foolishness more so than reality. Which may be fine ---…

[deleted]

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#72

Post by nathias »

aww_dang wrote: post #60
jqpabc123 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing better for HN than name calling when you can't logically refute an argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value >The subjective theory of value is an economic theory which advances the idea that the value of a good is not determined by any inherent property, nor by the amount of labor necessary to produce it, but instead is determined by the importance an acting individual places on a good for the achievement of his desired ends.

It doesn't matter what theory of value we believe in, none of them would support op.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#73

Post by jqpabc123 »

aww_dang wrote: post #68
jqpabc123 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The subjective theory of value --- where worth is only determined by what someone will pay. A theory fully embraced by every con artist --- and crypto fan. In other words, the title you bought to the Golden Gate Bridge is worth whatever you can con some other like-minded fool into paying you for it. The obvious problem here being that worth and value is based on foolishness more so than reality. Which may be fine ---…

>A theory fully embraced by every con artist --- and crypto fan. There are some BTC maximalists who demand that the energy consumption of BTC and the sunk costs give it value. This is the input cost theory of value which is distinctly different. Similar to the labor theory of value. I'm sure the title to a the Golden Gate Bridge is at least worth the paper it is printed on. Perhaps if there is significant novelty val…

but again false and fraudulent claims are a distinct and separate matter.

Kinda like the claim that electrons are money as long as some other fools accept it? No "conflation" required.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#74

Post by eimrine »

jfk13 wrote: post #52
eimrine wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try different angles to see at these cases. Tax evasion is good if your government happened to be terrorist regiment (maybe not a case for citizen of first-world). Money laundering is not from my list, I don't know is it possible to convert crypto to cash enough safely. Gambling is not any bad, to be honest, and instead of child porn case you may consider something less controversial like buying a vpn if your govt re…

> most beautiful part ... > ... any enough popular blockchain ought run forever Really? And how do you decide which of all the thousands of blockchains to store your bits on? Just because one chain seems popular today doesn't guarantee it'll be popular next year or next century; most likely some other shinier blockchain-successor will eventually supplant it, and it'll fade away. So to preserve your data "forever", yo…

> And how do you decide which of all the thousands of blockchains to store your bits on?

Bitcoin's one, because Bitcoin is a flagman of all cryptocurrency movement. If somebody invents better blockchain than current Bitcoin's blockchain, that improvement will be implemented to Bitcoin for the sake of trust to the cryptocurrency with the longest history.

> So to preserve your data "forever", you'll need to constantly monitor the blockchain ecosystem, and make sure you copy your data to another blockchain if the one you picked first shows signs of decline.

I disagree with you. All you need is make sure your tx is not orphan. Abandoning Bitcoin for the sake of new Bitcoin-like cryptocurrency is against the promice of Bitcoin.

> Or just use a few copies of normal storage media, copying them to fresh media at intervals. This is a solved problem. Blockchain offers nothing here.

You miss the point of storing some bits forever. Forever is 100% uptime, period.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#75

Post by McLaren_Ferrari »

aww_dang wrote: post #68
jqpabc123 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The subjective theory of value --- where worth is only determined by what someone will pay. A theory fully embraced by every con artist --- and crypto fan. In other words, the title you bought to the Golden Gate Bridge is worth whatever you can con some other like-minded fool into paying you for it. The obvious problem here being that worth and value is based on foolishness more so than reality. Which may be fine ---…

>A theory fully embraced by every con artist --- and crypto fan. There are some BTC maximalists who demand that the energy consumption of BTC and the sunk costs give it value. This is the input cost theory of value which is distinctly different. Similar to the labor theory of value. I'm sure the title to a the Golden Gate Bridge is at least worth the paper it is printed on. Perhaps if there is significant novelty val…

By the same token it's impossible to say what goes on in the mind of an individual who goes through a sudden change in their personal evaluation of the asset they just bought.

If they buy the title to the Golden Gate Bridge from you and then try to cash in and suddenly realize they have been had....well it's only fair game if they come looking for you with the intention of making themselves whole (and then some)

Or if they are civilized they'd go to the police and they'd be the ones coming for you.

As you see the subjective theory of value can be extended to everything and anything. It doesn't stop working once the transaction is settled. Per the subjective theory of value the transaction can always be reversed: judicially, politically or violently.

That's the reason why scammers who are smart try to put as much geographical and jurisdictional distance between themselves and those who were scammed

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#76

Post by eimrine »

Traster wrote: post #14

>If Bitcoin’s ecosystem collapses, funds can’t be returned to holders because its price going to zero means there’s nothing to recover. To be more precise, if Bitcoin's price goes to zero, there's no reward for mining so the blockchain will literally stop.

if

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#77

Post by jqpabc123 »

fareesh wrote: post #41

Framing all of crypto as a single thing is inaccurate

Crypto is the idea that *anyone* with a little technical know-how can create their own currency. There are currently over 20,000 different crypto currencies in circulation and more are being created all the time.

What is inaccurate about this statement?

What do you think is stopping every major corporation from jumping on this get rich quick scheme?

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#78

Post by jqpabc123 »

jfk13 wrote: post #47
jqpabc123 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto is an industry covering thousands of different projects. Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities was once the 6th largest market maker in S&P 500 stocks --- run by a former chairman of the NASDAQ stock exchange with thousands of wealthy, famous clients. Having a good back story only helped him proliferate his con. The nobel tech behind crypto certainly is not a scam, its revolutionary. Tech isn't nobel. Tech s…

I suspect "nobel tech" may have been a typo for "novel tech", rather than "noble...".

Taken within the context of the overall post, I think "noble tech" was the intent.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#79

Post by bko »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #61
bko wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he's providing a valuable service by creating products that exert a downward pressure on some coins. I don't see whats wrong with this. The default state allows for number to only go up until a rug pull.

I think "providing a valuable service" is secondary to the fact that he stands to profit from it.

Why is profit bad? Nearly every service I use is administered by someone profiting from it

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#80

Post by jqpabc123 »

bko wrote: post #79
jqpabc123 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "providing a valuable service" is secondary to the fact that he stands to profit from it.

Why is profit bad? Nearly every service I use is administered by someone profiting from it

Profit can be either good or bad. The difference is often in *how* it is earned.

The host from the article summarized it pretty well, "I’m in the Ponzi business and it’s pretty good”.

Offering a service to rubes in a Ponzi scheme may not be illegal ... but it is not without ethical concerns either.

Have you ever wondered why every corporation on the planet hasn't jumped into this highly profitable scheme of creating your own currency? They have the resources and the technical expertise to do it --- but they haven't. Ever wonder why?

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