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Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

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Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#61

Post by jqpabc123 »

bko wrote: post #53
jqpabc123 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Bankman-Fried is a realist. Sure --- and a profiteer. I appreciate his candor. He obviously understands full well that the game makes no sense --- but he is perfectly willing to profit from those who don't.

I think he's providing a valuable service by creating products that exert a downward pressure on some coins. I don't see whats wrong with this. The default state allows for number to only go up until a rug pull.

I think "providing a valuable service" is secondary to the fact that he stands to profit from it.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#62

Post by McLaren_Ferrari »

aww_dang wrote: post #60
jqpabc123 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing better for HN than name calling when you can't logically refute an argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value >The subjective theory of value is an economic theory which advances the idea that the value of a good is not determined by any inherent property, nor by the amount of labor necessary to produce it, but instead is determined by the importance an acting individual places on a good for the achievement of his desired ends.

> The subjective theory of value is an economic theory which advances the idea that the value of a good is not determined by any inherent property, nor by the amount of labor necessary to produce it, but instead is determined by the importance an acting individual places on a good for the achievement of his desired ends.

In short: "Stonk_price_bruh!"

Elvis-mania, Bealte-mania, Backstreet boys-mania...they all end at some point.

Positive strong emotions are strong but they burn fast, or can even turn into negative strong emotions.

Unlike Elvis nobody became hysterical or collapsed to the ground when they saw a young Warren Buffett, people to this day think he's old, boring, doesn't get it.

Then they look at the scoreboard. 40 years in the Forbes 400, and not only that, in the top 5.

Let's see where Satoshi, Buterin , Brian Armstrong, Binance guy are in 40 years.

The one who is best positioned financially to be still there is Elon but he's inherently unstable mentally.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#63

Post by nathias »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #58
nathias wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the 'substantial real world value'. Nothing better for HN upovte crowd than the self-sure idiot calling a whole industry scam, because it isn't something that he personally wants.

Nothing better for HN than name calling when you can't logically refute an argument.

What argument? You're calling things millions of people use useless, you're calling things that have actual value that you can trade for other vlauable things valueless. Where is the argument? As far as I understand it you're just making things up.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#64

Post by aww_dang »

McLaren_Ferrari wrote: post #62
aww_dang wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value >The subjective theory of value is an economic theory which advances the idea that the value of a good is not determined by any inherent property, nor by the amount of labor necessary to produce it, but instead is determined by the importance an acting individual places on a good for the achievement of his desired ends.

> The subjective theory of value is an economic theory which advances the idea that the value of a good is not determined by any inherent property, nor by the amount of labor necessary to produce it, but instead is determined by the importance an acting individual places on a good for the achievement of his desired ends. In short: "Stonk_price_bruh!" Elvis-mania, Bealte-mania, Backstreet boys-mania...they all end at…

Which if I am reading your comment correctly, would be better described as a criticism of bubbles. A bubble is distinct from a scam or ponzi. It is also unrelated to the quote I posted.

Individuals who wish to transact in cryptocurrency or any other asset you do not value are not involved in a scam, simply because you do not value that asset. They have their own ends which we may not appreciate.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#65

Post by McLaren_Ferrari »

aww_dang wrote: post #64
McLaren_Ferrari wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The subjective theory of value is an economic theory which advances the idea that the value of a good is not determined by any inherent property, nor by the amount of labor necessary to produce it, but instead is determined by the importance an acting individual places on a good for the achievement of his desired ends. In short: "Stonk_price_bruh!" Elvis-mania, Bealte-mania, Backstreet boys-mania...they all end at…

Which if I am reading your comment correctly, would be better described as a criticism of bubbles. A bubble is distinct from a scam or ponzi. It is also unrelated to the quote I posted. Individuals who wish to transact in cryptocurrency or any other asset you do not value are not involved in a scam, simply because you do not value that asset. They have their own ends which we may not appreciate.

Bubbles and scams both thrive on delusion and irrational exhuberance. They are very similar.

The only difference is that with bubbles everybody buys into the delusion, whereas with scams at least those at the top are sane enough not to believe their own hype.

> Individuals who wish to transact in cryptocurrency

Excepts nobody transacts, everybody trades for capital appreciation purposes

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#66

Post by jqpabc123 »

aww_dang wrote: post #60
jqpabc123 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing better for HN than name calling when you can't logically refute an argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value >The subjective theory of value is an economic theory which advances the idea that the value of a good is not determined by any inherent property, nor by the amount of labor necessary to produce it, but instead is determined by the importance an acting individual places on a good for the achievement of his desired ends.

The subjective theory of value --- where worth is only determined by what someone will pay. A theory fully embraced by every con artist --- and crypto fan.

In other words, the title you bought to the Golden Gate Bridge is worth whatever you can con some other like-minded fool into paying you for it.

The obvious problem here being that worth and value is based on foolishness more so than reality. Which may be fine --- until reality intrudes --- which it always does --- eventually.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#68

Post by aww_dang »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #66
aww_dang wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value >The subjective theory of value is an economic theory which advances the idea that the value of a good is not determined by any inherent property, nor by the amount of labor necessary to produce it, but instead is determined by the importance an acting individual places on a good for the achievement of his desired ends.

The subjective theory of value --- where worth is only determined by what someone will pay. A theory fully embraced by every con artist --- and crypto fan. In other words, the title you bought to the Golden Gate Bridge is worth whatever you can con some other like-minded fool into paying you for it. The obvious problem here being that worth and value is based on foolishness more so than reality. Which may be fine ---…

>A theory fully embraced by every con artist --- and crypto fan.

There are some BTC maximalists who demand that the energy consumption of BTC and the sunk costs give it value. This is the input cost theory of value which is distinctly different. Similar to the labor theory of value.

I'm sure the title to a the Golden Gate Bridge is at least worth the paper it is printed on. Perhaps if there is significant novelty value, someone may buy it for those benefits alone. It is impossible to say how individuals would value it, but again false and fraudulent claims are a distinct and separate matter. Attempting to conflate the issue is somewhat dishonest in itself.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#69

Post by eimrine »

dTal wrote: post #46
eimrine wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is investing in cryptography research? Paying to some guy having some interesting whitepapers and that is it?

I don't know, I guess. "The academic field of cryptography" is much more abstract than "a lump of gold". My point was more about what bitcoin isn't - specifically, it isn't a natural resource like gold is. One useful distinguisher: when someone invents a new use for gold, the value of gold increases. When the field of cryptography progresses, bitcoin becomes more obsolete.

> My point was more about what bitcoin isn't - specifically, it isn't a natural resource like gold is.

I can understand that point, btw my opinion is that Bitcoin is a natural resource of saving some bits of data forever. No any alternative with same props in no-Blockchain world.

> One useful distinguisher: when someone invents a new use for gold, the value of gold increases. When the field of cryptography progresses, bitcoin becomes more obsolete.

Not even close to truth. When someone invents a new metal alloy with some properties of gold, the value of gold may decrease. When the field of cryptography progresses, the value of some cryptocurrencies may increase, for example Litecoin skyrocketed from $4 to $400 in one day after Lightning network has appeared on Litecoin several years ago (there were more examples not only for LTC, I just took a peace of data which I am confident in).

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#70

Post by simonsarris »

supernt wrote: post #67

The fine art world also falls under these various categories; zero-sum, greater-fool theory. Why pay $100m for a Basquiat? Because "number go up" of course; Yet no one is predicting its imminent demise.

Art has the immense advantage that, if everyone is in on the game, and prices keep rising, then someone can acquire a work at 2 million, value it 6 years later at 15 million, and donate it to a non-profit/foundation/etc for the 15 million value, to get a massive tax write-off. The chump in this case is the US Gov. No other Art player is hurt, only the taxpayer.
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