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Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

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Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#31

Post by pibechorro »

Crypto is an industry covering thousands of different projects. The nobel tech behind crypto certainly is not a scam, its revolutionary.

Out of the thousand of projects many are indeed scammy. Likewise, many are serious projects, and a few like BTC are paradigm changing. Maybe not to you, the majority western (very) well off reader with a stable and sorta not corrupt governance, but to the millions in this planet where they are forced into never leaving poverty by dictators, oligarchs and crony politicians hyperinflating their life savings or seizing assets due to religious/racial/class lines (much of South and Central America, Africa, the middle east, etc) its a godsend.

Hacker news really should know better than these blanket statement smears. Its either bitterness, ignorance/privilege or paid shilling propaganda. A much more serious problem in the world than some exit scams by fly by night crypto scammers.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#32

Post by eimrine »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #25
eimrine wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is too hard for me to chose only one: 1. Honest lottery where result is derived from some bits considered to be random. 2. Abuse-proof selling of (controversial) digital goods like vpn or porn with not enough old actresses for your jurisdiction. 3. Storing some bits of data forever (this is the most important feature of so-called cryptocurrencies from my point of view). 4. Donates if you don't want to deal with th…

So money laundering, tax evasion, funding terrorism, child porn and gambling? Feels like all that's missing here is a cackling Skeletor.

Try different angles to see at these cases.

Tax evasion is good if your government happened to be terrorist regiment (maybe not a case for citizen of first-world). Money laundering is not from my list, I don't know is it possible to convert crypto to cash enough safely. Gambling is not any bad, to be honest, and instead of child porn case you may consider something less controversial like buying a vpn if your govt really don't want you to; or buying weed with less contact than using a contactless card in those countries who offers legal way for buying that.

And seems nobody is noticing the most beautiful part of cryptocurrency's nature - storing some bits of data if you really don't want that to be deleted. Any flash card might became unreadable, any manuscript might became destroyed and any judge might commit a wrong decision about your property. But any enough popular blockchain ought run forever with all the data guaranteed to be untouched.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#34

Post by jqpabc123 »

pibechorro wrote: post #31

Crypto is an industry covering thousands of different projects. The nobel tech behind crypto certainly is not a scam, its revolutionary. Out of the thousand of projects many are indeed scammy. Likewise, many are serious projects, and a few like BTC are paradigm changing. Maybe not to you, the majority western (very) well off reader with a stable and sorta not corrupt governance, but to the millions in this planet whe…

Crypto is an industry covering thousands of different projects.

Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities was once the 6th largest market maker in S&P 500 stocks --- run by a former chairman of the NASDAQ stock exchange with thousands of wealthy, famous clients.

Having a good back story only helped him proliferate his con.

The nobel tech behind crypto certainly is not a scam, its revolutionary.

Tech isn't nobel. Tech serves bad purposes just as easily and faithfully as good.

Assigning altruistic characteristics to tech smacks of religion more than reality and really discredits your argument.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#35

Post by marginalia_nu »

eimrine wrote: post #32
marginalia_nu wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So money laundering, tax evasion, funding terrorism, child porn and gambling? Feels like all that's missing here is a cackling Skeletor.

Try different angles to see at these cases. Tax evasion is good if your government happened to be terrorist regiment (maybe not a case for citizen of first-world). Money laundering is not from my list, I don't know is it possible to convert crypto to cash enough safely. Gambling is not any bad, to be honest, and instead of child porn case you may consider something less controversial like buying a vpn if your govt re…

The blockchain requires the energy consumption of a small country to maintain your eternal bits. You think that will go on forever, especially in a future where energy prices keep rising as fossil fuels are phased out?

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#36

Post by wseqyrku »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #21

Technically not a Ponzi scheme but still a scam and/or a con. The fact that some people profit from a con doesn't negate the fundamental nature of this zero sum game. Everyone can't win. For every winner, there must be losers of an equal or greater amount. Finding more/bigger fools can be fun and profitable but it is not building or creating any sort of substantial real world *value*. The only *value* in this game is…

So in short, it's built on the solid foundation of stupid people.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#37

Post by bko »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #21

Technically not a Ponzi scheme but still a scam and/or a con. The fact that some people profit from a con doesn't negate the fundamental nature of this zero sum game. Everyone can't win. For every winner, there must be losers of an equal or greater amount. Finding more/bigger fools can be fun and profitable but it is not building or creating any sort of substantial real world *value*. The only *value* in this game is…

I think Bankman-Fried is a realist. He understands that a lot of token economics don't make sense. Having a non-yielding asset pay some kind of yield is the crypto equivalent of a perpetual motion machine. It can work short term but long term its impossible unless the token has some other means of creating wealth (e.g. fee for some gambling scheme)

But I think what he is doing is still valuable. He's creating financial products for this space and an important financial product is the ability to bet against something. This exerts a downward pressure on the asset and incentivizes people to find the most fraudulent projects and bet against them.

Most of these shitcoins are trading in decentralized exchanges. What's the alternative? Ban certain types of math? Regulate what websites we can list? Try to dox the dex operators?

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#38

Post by mensetmanusman »

Not necessarily, but it has attracted the best schemers and con artists in the world in one big party over the last couple years.

I’m very interested to see what happens with these nations that have adopted bitcoin as a currency, as it seems like they are destined to relearn the pain that having a deflationary currency brings.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#39

Post by eimrine »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #35
eimrine wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try different angles to see at these cases. Tax evasion is good if your government happened to be terrorist regiment (maybe not a case for citizen of first-world). Money laundering is not from my list, I don't know is it possible to convert crypto to cash enough safely. Gambling is not any bad, to be honest, and instead of child porn case you may consider something less controversial like buying a vpn if your govt re…

The blockchain requires the energy consumption of a small country to maintain your eternal bits. You think that will go on forever, especially in a future where energy prices keep rising as fossil fuels are phased out?

> The blockchain requires the energy consumption of a small country.

This is a lie, so the question of yours just does not exist.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#40

Post by marginalia_nu »

eimrine wrote: post #39
marginalia_nu wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blockchain requires the energy consumption of a small country to maintain your eternal bits. You think that will go on forever, especially in a future where energy prices keep rising as fossil fuels are phased out?

> The blockchain requires the energy consumption of a small country. This is a lie, so the question of yours just does not exist.

https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption/

This site puts Bitcoin about on par with Thailand.

https://digiconomist.net/ethereum-energy-consumption

Ethereum is about a Khazakstan.

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