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Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

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Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#21

Post by jqpabc123 »

Technically not a Ponzi scheme but still a scam and/or a con.

The fact that some people profit from a con doesn't negate the fundamental nature of this zero sum game. Everyone can't win. For every winner, there must be losers of an equal or greater amount.

Finding more/bigger fools can be fun and profitable but it is not building or creating any sort of substantial real world *value*. The only *value* in this game is that which was created from nothing or obtained from other misguided players. Common sense should tell you that to nothing it will eventually return. Eventually, lots of people will have to be informed that the only *value* they hold is a few electrons and a broken dream. The tricky part is figuring out *when* this will occur.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#22

Post by eimrine »

dTal wrote: post #13
kungito wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well now you can argue that crypto also has actual industrial and other uses, they just shadow the most of the trading volume which is all about speculation and money laundering

You can argue that, fallaciously. What's a bitcoin good for? You can't make it into anything else. Cryptography is useful, yes, as an abstract framework. That's not what's under discussion. Buying bitcoin is not the same as investing in cryptography research.

What is investing in cryptography research? Paying to some guy having some interesting whitepapers and that is it?

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#25

Post by marginalia_nu »

eimrine wrote: post #20
marginalia_nu wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name one industrial use for cryptocurrencies that isn't some form of grifting.

It is too hard for me to chose only one: 1. Honest lottery where result is derived from some bits considered to be random. 2. Abuse-proof selling of (controversial) digital goods like vpn or porn with not enough old actresses for your jurisdiction. 3. Storing some bits of data forever (this is the most important feature of so-called cryptocurrencies from my point of view). 4. Donates if you don't want to deal with th…

So money laundering, tax evasion, funding terrorism, child porn and gambling?

Feels like all that's missing here is a cackling Skeletor.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#26

Post by WantonQuantum »

HelloNurse wrote: post #15

Crypto schemes tends more towards short term, immediate scenarios than a Ponzi scheme: your broker sells but doesn't buy (maybe with excuses related to technical problems), this is the price and good luck selling to someone else, your "funds" now belong to some colluding parties and it must be true because they wrote it in the blockchain, the deleted records of a gone pseudobank would prove that you "bought" and "own…

It’s difficult to understand exactly what you’re trying to say here but it sounds like you’ve been ripped off by a shoddy crypto exchange.

I doesn’t sound like you totally understand how a blockchain works.

As with any investment, the onus is on you to understand what you’re buying.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#27

Post by dakial1 »

It would be interesting to see a research on how pyramid schemes participants, political/religious extremists and cult participants show some really common traits.

They are always blind to the facts, rationalize and deflect everything. Always repeating the same arguments that were served to them "What about gold?", "What about financial market in general?", "What about Hillary?", "What about Islam?".... There is a strong sense of community, superiority and being enlightened. Always entrenched in their position, defending their situation and never ever admitting the most evident facts of the situation....

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#28

Post by unsupp0rted »

dakial1 wrote: post #27

It would be interesting to see a research on how pyramid schemes participants, political/religious extremists and cult participants show some really common traits. They are always blind to the facts, rationalize and deflect everything. Always repeating the same arguments that were served to them "What about gold?", "What about financial market in general?", "What about Hillary?", "What about Islam?".... There is a st…

> They are always blind to the facts, rationalize and deflect everything. Always repeating the same arguments that were served to them.

That's true of most people about most things. It's not exclusive to extremists or cultists.

In fact, all of the above is. I didn't used to notice when I was younger because I was always on the winning team by default.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#29

Post by gregw2 »

est31 wrote: post #12

There is a big difference between crypto and classical ponzi schemes, that doesn't seem big at first sight but actually is big. To use ETF terminology, the classical ponzi scheme distributes by default, while crypto accumulates by default. As in, classically a ponzi scheme is a deal where someone convinces you to "invest" into their scheme and you get (usually high) dividends in return regularly. On the other hand, c…

Err, good point about the dynamics of the difference between accumulative vs distributive ponzi schemes.

But "accumulative" ponzi schemes have been around and labeled as ponzis long before crypto and there's nothing unique about the "crypto ponzi" version besides the sheen of hightech.

Bernie Madoff for example didn't have to payout all the earnings/dividends either, he just had to convince people they should HODL too.

As a database guy, I appreciate an immutable distributed ledger but the energy/climate/resource waste of running so many hash functions as your base primitive just makes me recoil in horror.

And proof of stake is just capitalism redux. The one with the gold makes the rules.

Re: Is crypto just one big Ponzi scheme?

#30

Post by alephnan »

dakial1 wrote: post #27

It would be interesting to see a research on how pyramid schemes participants, political/religious extremists and cult participants show some really common traits. They are always blind to the facts, rationalize and deflect everything. Always repeating the same arguments that were served to them "What about gold?", "What about financial market in general?", "What about Hillary?", "What about Islam?".... There is a st…

So people who ask "What about Hillary?" are extremists, but people who ask “What about Trump” aren’t ? ( it’s very obvious what your leanings are )

You’re projecting a strong sense of community, superiority and being enlightened.

Since you place an importance on facts, explain why a wide range of ethnic minorities shifted their vote in favor of Trump from 2016 to 2022, while white voters swayed the other way.

Looking forward to the rationalization and deflection

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