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Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

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Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#21

Post by brimble »

oh_sigh wrote: post #11
altdataseller wrote: post #4

Does being attractive really help you in getting hired in engineering positions? I would understand client-facing/sales jobs, but unsure it would help in engineering roles

I don't think it is a bad question to ask. In fact, there might even be negative biases against attractiveness for engineers. Will a dude with cheeto dust on his star wars t-shirt give a fair shake to a good looking woman who is wearing business attire and makeup, compared to another dude in a t-shirt? Let's do a test. Who would you imagine is the better engineer of these two old timey people? https://i.imgur.com/omR…

> Will a dude with cheeto dust on his star wars t-shirt give a fair shake to a good looking woman who is wearing business attire and makeup

The Cheeto-dust legible-t-shirt look is unfashionable in tech and probably not a great idea. Been true since the late '00s at least. I think the put-together woman wins in that match up.

> compared to another dude in a t-shirt?

Depends. Is the t-shirt $150 retail, made of merino wool, and sporting a small brand logo that the interviewer will recognize from the gear lists on that minimalism/travel blog they really like?

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#22

Post by thr0waway001 »

altdataseller wrote: post #4

Does being attractive really help you in getting hired in engineering positions? I would understand client-facing/sales jobs, but unsure it would help in engineering roles

I'd argue it can hinder sometimes.

I hate to say it but it probably depends on the gender.

What I will say is anecdotal and probably controversial but it is just my observation:

I've seen all kinds of talented male devs and there's huge variance in their looks. Some good looking and some not.

But when it comes to talented female devs: they all looked a certain type. I'll let you people decide what I mean.

Yes, profiling people sucks but .... sometimes it yields results.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#23

Post by projektfu »

mdoms wrote: post #12

> In study 2, beautifying filters increased the hireability only slightly for White female applicants, followed by White and Black male applicants but substantially for Black female applicants It's a gross thing to consider but I wonder if the filter lightened the skin of black female applicants. These results are disappointing but unfortunately not surprising.

The filter in question, FaceApp "Hollywood" absolutely lightens darker skin tones. It moves everything a little more toward "Warm" colors. It also seems to make noses more slender but leaves lips large or enlarges them. That's my unscientific extrapolation from a few samples I saw.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#24

Post by joshgachnang »

version_five wrote: post #15
oh_sigh wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is a bad question to ask. In fact, there might even be negative biases against attractiveness for engineers. Will a dude with cheeto dust on his star wars t-shirt give a fair shake to a good looking woman who is wearing business attire and makeup, compared to another dude in a t-shirt? Let's do a test. Who would you imagine is the better engineer of these two old timey people? https://i.imgur.com/omR…

There is definitely (well, anecdotally) negative bias against "well put together" attractive engineers. Picture a software engineer, male or female, chances are your stereotype isn't a glamorous person in a flashy suit with an expensive haircut and grooming. And if you saw someone like that, you'd be suspicious of their technical ability. It's a sterotype, but it's not all that weird. I don't think it's necessarily a…

Also anecdotal: When I was freelancing, I'd specifically make sure to be wearing my glasses and a hoodie during the first meeting with potential clients. I had better responses and they seemed to implicitly trust that I was competent vs wearing contacts. Whereas on a dating profile/first dates, I would always wear contacts because I think I look more handsome that way.

Biases are frustrating and annoying and I used to think they weren't worth worrying about. Then I went from obese to healthy weight and noticed the ways people treated me differently. Now I acknowledge that they have an effect and try to remove my own, but it's not perfect.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#25

Post by andmikey »

projektfu wrote: post #16

When I was in England for a short time I was tasked with screening candidates for employment (software engineers). As an American, I was taken aback by most of the resumes including photos. That's just not done here in the US. Some American HR departments might even send back your resume and ask you to resubmit it without a photo. It seems to be standard practice in Europe, perhaps to convince you that the person int…

Not sure how long ago this was - photos on resumes is definitely not a thing in the UK anymore. Very common in some European countries (e.g. Germany), though.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#26

Post by michaelt »

andmikey wrote: post #25
projektfu wrote: post #16

When I was in England for a short time I was tasked with screening candidates for employment (software engineers). As an American, I was taken aback by most of the resumes including photos. That's just not done here in the US. Some American HR departments might even send back your resume and ask you to resubmit it without a photo. It seems to be standard practice in Europe, perhaps to convince you that the person int…

Not sure how long ago this was - photos on resumes is definitely not a thing in the UK anymore. Very common in some European countries (e.g. Germany), though.

Some jobs in the UK get a lot of international applicants; from time to time they'll include photos.

Agree it's pretty uncommon though.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#27

Post by edent »

projektfu wrote: post #16

When I was in England for a short time I was tasked with screening candidates for employment (software engineers). As an American, I was taken aback by most of the resumes including photos. That's just not done here in the US. Some American HR departments might even send back your resume and ask you to resubmit it without a photo. It seems to be standard practice in Europe, perhaps to convince you that the person int…

That is extremely unusual for the UK. I know some European countries make a photo mandatory - but I've never seen it in the UK.

I've reviewed a huge number of CVs - at SME and large companies. I think the only time I've ever seen a photo in that context was an auto-generated thing from LinkedIn.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#28

Post by version_five »

projektfu wrote: post #16

When I was in England for a short time I was tasked with screening candidates for employment (software engineers). As an American, I was taken aback by most of the resumes including photos. That's just not done here in the US. Some American HR departments might even send back your resume and ask you to resubmit it without a photo. It seems to be standard practice in Europe, perhaps to convince you that the person int…

I worked in business consulting and we always put resumes/bios with out pictures (professional headshots) in proposals.

Many startups have founder / leadership pics and bios on their website

Most "professionals" like lawyers have a headshot on their website. Every political campaign features the face of the candidates.

Almost everyone who uses linkedin has a pic

Really, western institutional job applications are pretty much the only place where people are trying to "sell themselves" but don't have a pic. It's basically fairness theatre, to pretend that the personal physical characteristics of people don't matter. If that was true, you wouldn't have all the examples I listed.

I'm not trying to say it's right or wrong here, just that it's obvious from all human behavior that seeing what a person looks like is an important part of working with them.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#29

Post by Manuel_D »

altdataseller wrote: post #4

Does being attractive really help you in getting hired in engineering positions? I would understand client-facing/sales jobs, but unsure it would help in engineering roles

It probably matters less, but unconscious bias likely still exists to an extent.

Hopefully remote work would help establish practices like interviewing over zoom with a camera off. There's potential concerns about someone else completing the coding challenges for the candidate, or otherwise more blatant cheating. But that could be accomplished by, say, capturing video and only reviewing it after a hiring decision has been made.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#30

Post by [deleted] »

andmikey wrote: post #25
projektfu wrote: post #16

When I was in England for a short time I was tasked with screening candidates for employment (software engineers). As an American, I was taken aback by most of the resumes including photos. That's just not done here in the US. Some American HR departments might even send back your resume and ask you to resubmit it without a photo. It seems to be standard practice in Europe, perhaps to convince you that the person int…

Not sure how long ago this was - photos on resumes is definitely not a thing in the UK anymore. Very common in some European countries (e.g. Germany), though.

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