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Gnome patent troll stripped of patent rights

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Re: Gnome patent troll stripped of patent rights

#41
post #37

> Perhaps it's time for the law to adjust to the point where the stakes for the troll are high Take that further. The stakes should be high against all adjacent patent holders. Ultimately if we want to keep a working patent system it's too much work to rely on piecemeal independent cases like this, albeit a great success. The system has to self-police to be fair, and perhaps the best people to keep trolls and mischie…

The problem is that the people who determine patent law (mostly patent officers/lawyers/judges) benefit from the current system.

This is at the root of a broader problem with the judicial system, which is that it systematically fails to do its job in a timely manner. But that's okay with the actors, because they bill by the hour. That's not exaggeration or hyperbole; I've never seen a class of people do less for more than attorneys and judges, who go out of their way to be pleasant and accommodating to each other, with total disregard for the matters at hand. And so we have even simple matters drag on for months or years.

At the end of the day, "justice" is what we buy with our conformance to society. When nations fight over systems of government, it's really a fight over what justice means. The current system is broken, but it's owned by old, rich, intelligent people who know what power is and how to use it, how to keep it, how to rationalize it. Even the good ones fall, when they see how goodness and self-restraint is rewarded by their peers, lest they lose their power.

I do not think there is a realistic path to reform. The US justice system should be replaced, entirely, with something closer to the German system, which is far less concerned with where evidence comes from, for example, and far more concerned with whether its true. Things happen much faster, and most argumentation is done in writing. Attorneys are forbidden from advertising - which used to be the case in the US, too. But of course they got that changed. It's also remarkable how often a German attorney refers to the law - they treat it as a rulebook as for a board game, whereas in the states the judge, in practice, has absolute power over all participants and is free to ignore the law, or invent new law. (Well, they aren't supposed to be, but the process for holding a judge to account is, if you can imagine it, even worse than the rest of the system. Gee whiz, I wonder how that happened?)

Re: Gnome patent troll stripped of patent rights

#42
> none is as powerful as challenging the nefarious patents directly

Why don't we see this deployed against competitors? I get why the big boys wouldn't want to rock the boat. But hiring a patent lawyer to go through a competitor's patents and challenge the ones they think could be flimsy sounds like a decent way to, at the very least, distract them.

Re: Gnome patent troll stripped of patent rights

#43
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for highlighting the line for everyone of us here. Unfortunately, please don't make HN comments similar to the Reddit ones... :')

Hahaha, I definitely didn’t mean to kick off political discussion in here. I’m happy this isn’t Reddit. Just couldn’t help but notice the similarity.

No post body was provided.

Re: Gnome patent troll stripped of patent rights

#44
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where can patent examiners look for prior art?

Patent examiners can look basically anywhere a member of the public can and some other places. The internal search tools check a lot of patent databases and are quite good, but take time to learn. The USPTO has a lot of subscription databases as well, including fancy AI/ML-based ones. Many examiners will also search normal search engines like Google, though this can be tricky for legal reasons. If the application was…

Why is the secrecy required if the patent is going to end up public anyway? If you could pre-publish to the public (with a verifiable timestamp) then anyone could submit a challenge and the patent would be only be granted if it’s actually novel and remains unchallenged for some time. IDK I must be missing something because this seems too obvious a solution...

Re: Gnome patent troll stripped of patent rights

#45
The heading is somewhat misleading, in that one might read it as "the troll lost all rights to any patents, ever." If you (correctly) didn't read it that way, you can ignore the rest of this.

What they actually lost is that patent. It was reexamined and all its claims were cancelled. Reexamination is a standard tactic against a patent infringement suit, and we did it all the time at Google. A reexamination is a mini-trial, with no jury; just a bunch of patent law experts. It costs less than a full trial but still can be $500,000 or so.

A troll will offer to settle for a small amount rather than risk getting their patent cancelled. I think it's fair to call it "irresponsible" if you pay them that ransom, but of course, it's cheaper for you that way.

Re: Gnome patent troll stripped of patent rights

#46

> Perhaps it's time for the law to adjust to the point where the stakes for the troll are high Take that further. The stakes should be high against all adjacent patent holders. Ultimately if we want to keep a working patent system it's too much work to rely on piecemeal independent cases like this, albeit a great success. The system has to self-police to be fair, and perhaps the best people to keep trolls and mischie…

> Ultimately its probably better if we move to a world where a lot of "intellectual property" expires with it's holder and passes into the public domain.

I fully agree with you (and it's one of the few strongly held opinions of mine), but I'm not really sure why you would bring this up within the context of patent trolls. Patents do run out, rather quickly even.

It's other intellectual property -- namely copyright -- that needs to run out way faster. The trademark system that we have right now is alright imo and doesnt need to be "fixed".

Re: Gnome patent troll stripped of patent rights

#47

Can someone ELI5 what this the RPI patent (US9936086B2) even tried to patent? Their claims look like the description of just any digital camera and a connected web service (Google Photos). [1] https://patents.google.com/patent/US9936086B2/en

I'm not a Lawyer.

It looks like it was trying to cover the idea of sharing pictures between devices. Not the process of doing said sharing, but the idea.

Re: Gnome patent troll stripped of patent rights

#49
post #24
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When GNOME was raising the 150k they said they would not settle and would battle until the patent was overturned. People donated based upon this and then GNOME settled. This is why when things like the he said/she said argument with System 76 have come up I am mystified that some people are ready to believe GNOME's take. They have already shown that they are a project whose leadership's word can't be trusted.

According to the Gnome website they didn't have to pay their lawyers, so I'm wondering where that money went. > GNOME was represented pro-bono by Matt Berkowitz, Kieran Kieckhefer, Joy Wang and Larry Crouch from Shearman & Sterling LLP. https://foundation.gnome.org/2020/05/20/patent-case-against-...

I suspect it went into the settlement payment. Wouldn't it be ironic if so many principled advocates of open source and supporters of the GNOME project had their funds paid directly to a patent troll by GNOME themselves?

Re: Gnome patent troll stripped of patent rights

#50

> Perhaps it's time for the law to adjust to the point where the stakes for the troll are high Take that further. The stakes should be high against all adjacent patent holders. Ultimately if we want to keep a working patent system it's too much work to rely on piecemeal independent cases like this, albeit a great success. The system has to self-police to be fair, and perhaps the best people to keep trolls and mischie…

> Ultimately its probably better if we move to a world where a lot of "intellectual property" expires with it's holder and passes into the public domain. I fully agree with you (and it's one of the few strongly held opinions of mine), but I'm not really sure why you would bring this up within the context of patent trolls. Patents do run out, rather quickly even. It's other intellectual property -- namely copyright --…

The marginal cost of writing and creative artwork is even lower than software, not being able to profit from Mickey Mouse doesn't create significant harm to society.
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