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Python Shouldn't Be the Top Programming Language

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Re: Python Shouldn't Be the Top Programming Language

#21
I think the assumption here is that programming is about making applications, which it's not. Python provides a fantastic way for moderately technical users to interact with the web, their computers, and their data.

I built something this week that takes a source document, extracts entities from the text, uses that to build a query, ranks the results and returns a load of relevant documents.

It's massively useful to me and my organisation, complex enough to require coding, but absolutely sufficient as a quick command line script.

I'm not a CS grad or a serious developer, I only got into coding in the last few years, but I can make all this awesome stuff without worrying about compilers, garbage collection, pointers and whatnot. Python rocks.

Re: Python Shouldn't Be the Top Programming Language

#22
I appear to have very different taste is programming languages than most programmers. The languages I think of as amazing don't tend to gain traction, and the ones I dislike tend to be very popular. I've never gotten the appeal of Python, but a lot of people I respect adore it so try to see what they see.

Re: Python Shouldn't Be the Top Programming Language

#24

I see Python as the BASIC of the 2020s. It's not to knock it, but the real strength of Python is as a language that the non-professional programmer can pick up right away and use to put their non-programming skills on wheels. Jupyter, numpy, pandas, scikit-learn and such are the center of the ecosystem for many people. You can point your finger at these people and tell them to try Julia because it is better on paper.…

> Jupyter, numpy, pandas, scikit-learn and such are the center of the ecosystem for many people.

Exactly this. At this point I'm not sure where I'd even go for the tasks I use this suite of tools for. I'd check out Julia but I haven't run into many problems that would inspire me to switch.

Re: Python Shouldn't Be the Top Programming Language

#26
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What languages do folks “graduate” to after Python? (this was a genuine question as someone who primarily writes code in Python for fun, not professionally, and is looking to level up for fun)

In the ‘00s I found a python/C combination very effective. All control in python, compute in C and the class mechanism easily tied things together. I would recommend this for any new heavy cpu development as the needs for each portion are so different.

Right, that's one of the architectures for complex programs: use a scripting language for parts and a systems language for other parts.

Video games are a great example. You'd like a level designer to be able to edit scripts that control arbitrary things about the game play, but you also need a performance and GFX pro to program other parts.

Re: Python Shouldn't Be the Top Programming Language

#27
These arguments don’t really make much sense. Python is easy to read, write and teach that’s why it’s a top programming language.

The point about speed is nonsense, python is fast when it needs to be due to the ability to optimize python with C/cpp extensions. Also the idea that “every millisecond counts” in 2022 is dubious at best, IoT is just one domain of programming and not even the most popular one.

I have never heard anyone comment about python’s syntax rules being hard to learn, in fact when I first coded in python I just jumped right in with my knowledge of Java and reworking snippets from stackoverflow. I know non-technical people who have jumped into python directly and they run more so into basic errors in logic like accidental quadratics than syntax errors in python, in fact that’s one of the strengths of python.

> knowing how to code in Python is merely one step up from knowing how to run programs in a Bash shell, which is not coding at all.

This is a silly point as well, the strength of python is beginners and even non-technical experts in other fields can program in a simple interactive environment via the REPL or jupyter and do real work. When they want to ship their software they can use the plethora of tutorials to deploy with docker or learn how to distribute wheels. 90% of my software development skills I learned from working on a project in production so I don’t really understand what your choice of programming language has to do with it.

> Nothing really big has been written in python

This is not correct, I think that python is not the best tool for writing a complex web application or web service. However there are many large complex Django apps for instance or ETL pipelines that are written in python.

I think if you were to write a fair version of this article the reasons why python shouldn’t be a top programming language are:

1) lack of a typing system like Typescript

2) no agreement on a standard way of packaging and distributing python programs

3) too many ways to accomplish the same task

4) the GIL

However, I think python should be the top programming language simply because it’s easy to learn, teach, read and write. No matter what problem you have in your python code you can usually google and find an answer or a tutorial. Like I said anyone with a little bit of coding experience can pick up python and accomplish real work in a few days and that’s powerful.

Re: Python Shouldn't Be the Top Programming Language

#28
This is a very poor "article." When you write something today, you can't just say what you want without backing things up. In the first point "Python Is Not Fast" you would expect a table with one of many language benchmarks out there. Instead, you get the TIOBE index table. It makes no sense. And it's clear the author is not an expert in the field when he writes that Java is "not especially fast."

Re: Python Shouldn't Be the Top Programming Language

#29
I need this to be satire or bot-generated.

1. Python Is Not Fast

It's fast enough and "fast" is relative

2. Python's Syntax Is Too Rigid

WTF???

3. Python Provides a Limited Programming Experience

I'm cracking up at this point.

4. Nothing Really Big Has Been Written in Python

Crying laughing at my keyboard.

Django, NumPy, just to start with

" you'd think someone would have done something more interesting with it by now than write scripts and simple apps. But they haven't, and they probably won't." AAAAHAAAHAHAHA

Re: Python Shouldn't Be the Top Programming Language

#30
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What languages do folks “graduate” to after Python? (this was a genuine question as someone who primarily writes code in Python for fun, not professionally, and is looking to level up for fun)

It depends on what "graduate" means (I note your "scare quotes"). For some people, lexical styles matter a lot and it is easier to answer this question with that kind of constraint. While its ecosystem is surely much smaller than even Julia's, Nim [1] has a lot of the concise, lexical feel of Python, but semantics more like Modula3/Ada and with Lisp-like syntax macros/metaprogramming to fill in other gaps. Another po…

Python has PyPi and numba. PyPi is good for branchy things like RDF triple stores, business rules engines, etc.

CPython (and most other interpreters) has the big problem of the global interpreter lock which prevents it from taking advantage of threads... And that's a problem in a world where (1) 8-core laptops are common, (2) much bigger machines can be found in the server room and (3) many workloads can be parallelized over threads with just a little work.

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