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Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

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Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#411

Post by cupofpython »

jrockway wrote: post #341
cupofpython wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second this. Absolutely pay out of pocket if insurance drags their feet. I spent $5k on a mouthpiece for my treatment and would do it again. It is far from an ideal solution, but in the 3 months it takes insurance to get their shit together - your friend could have the energy to work a side job to pay off whatever it costs and just be generally happier overall

OK good advice, did not know that was an option.

note out of pocket doesnt mean independently - definitely still have a professional approve the purchase decision in case something about the configuration needs to be tailored specifically for your friend

in my case, i needed to see an orthodontist every 2 weeks to have the mouth piece adjusted. I am not sure how CPAP works to say if it is safe to "plug and play out of the box" so-to-speak

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#412

Post by adolph »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #380
adolph wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In reality, the doctor’s responsibility is being pushed to the patient In reality, your choice is your responsibility. Even if one could delegate medical power of attorney to a health care provider, it would be unethical for them to hold a dual role. Chronic conditions that are not well characterized and addressed by medicine are awful and as you said are a combined burden: the condition in of itself and the effort…

> In reality, your choice is your responsibility. How does that work if: A) doctors frequently refuse to provide treatment or tests the patient is asking for B) If the patient is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to make a choice?

A: Find a different gatekeeper. As the parent commented noted, they found relief after getting Xnd opinions.

B: There are specific provisions for emergency situations typically guided by state law.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#413

Post by wtetzner »

rightbyte wrote: post #95
vasco wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if a doctor spends a bunch of time on you, you should still do research. End of the day you're the person that cares most about your health in the whole world, why should you just leave it to a random expert with good intentions? If you spend time researching and come to them with detailed information about your symptoms, what you already ruled out and things you've tried, as well as a good understanding of your…

I care most about my car, house etc in the whole world too. The risk I guess is that being informed might make me want to overrule the experts. On a population scale the advice might be bad. Depends on how good the experts are.

> The risk I guess is that being informed might make me want to overrule the experts. On a population scale the advice might be bad. Depends on how good the experts are.

My experience with "experts" has been almost universally underwhelming. The only notable exceptions I've had is with a couple of veterinarians.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#414

Post by wtetzner »

ryandrake wrote: post #230
vasco wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your opinion is that if research tells you that you should overrule a doctor's opinion, the right course of action is to not bring it up, not do the research in the first place, because the doctor "knows better"? In my opinion if you disagree or have doubts about treatment you should definitely bring those up with your doctor, see what they say about your reservations, and either get convinced or find some second…

Everyone's using that word in this thread: research. Watching a bunch of YouTube videos is not research. Browsing medical web sites and choosing "treatments" that are cleverly and subtly marketed to you is not research. Matching your symptoms with a TV ad is not research. We saw what two years of "dO yOuR oWn ReSeArCh!" left us with during a deadly pandemic. We're all dunking on doctors in this thread, but look at it…

Who said anything about YouTube or TV ads?

PubMed is a great resource. Of course, it takes a lot of effort to really get something useful from those papers, since you need to try to understand the experiment they did, and not just read the conclusion (scientists have biases as well, and will often read what they want into the results).

But depending on how bad your condition is, it could absolutely be worth the time.

> But don't think your keyboard is going to bring you to The Truth That Doctors Dont Want You To Know.

Neither do I. I expect instead it might bring you to The Truth That Doctors Don't Know.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#415

Post by bryanlarsen »

e-dt wrote: post #382
JamesBarney wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Soviet Union had wages to, and far worse problems with shortages then capitalistic countries have ever had.

Yes, but not in general shortages of doctors. It's a totally different problem, so this isn't really a helpful way to look at it. After all, if there's a shortage of cabbages, it doesn't mean the remaining cabbages benefit and can lobby to keep it that way!

Cabbage farmers can, though.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#416

Post by seanmcdirmid »

matsemann wrote: post #54
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dentists don’t remove wisdom teeth, they just refer you to an oral surgeon. The problem with wisdom teeth is that they increase maintenance requirements, it’s hard to clean back there and they can affect adjacent teeth if they do go bad. So I get why many dentists default suggest to remove them (I still have mine but recently started running into problems at 47).

> they just refer you to an oral surgeon Perhaps in the US where they drug you down? Here the dentist just gives you a local anesthetic and pry them out, unless there is something extraordinary. Or perhaps it's a different person? But still the same company getting the money.

I was referred to a oral surgeon at the university of Washington (but there are oral surgeons affiliated with Swedish hospital also), my dentist is the typical private practice. Financially they are completely unrelated.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#417

Post by FollowingTheDao »

treeman79 wrote: post #409
throwawayboise wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specialists are called that for a reason. They are not general practitioners and their time is extremely valuable. Access to them needs to be managed so that they do not waste their time on people who do not need their specialty. The way it's supposed to work is that the general practitioner rules out a bunch of stuff, and then starts referring to specialists who can diagnose/treat the rare things. In practice it's n…

I probably cost insurance company 300-500,000 while figuring out what was wrong with me. A full round of blood tests by a few specialist would’ve saved everyone involved a lot of money. Wasn’t even a super rare thing. Just 2 somewhat common conditions. One of which is known for being dismissed as anxiety.

For the life of me I do not understand why they just do not throw a bunch of tests at people with chronic conditions. They all say they do not know what is wrong with us bu they never do any testing, and the outcome is the same every time; patients suffer and costs are higher.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#418

Post by throw10920 »

WalterSear wrote: post #372
FollowingTheDao wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when do salaries have nothing to do with capitalism?

Since people refuse to see regulatory capture as an unavoidable feature of capitalism.

Because it's factually not. At least, unless you define "capitalism" in a specific twisted way that includes "regulatory capture". Which I suppose a lot of socialists do...

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#419

Post by ivan888 »

> How often has Google responded to your medical question with putrid, SEO-optimized landfill? Google has found 29,100,000 results for my query, but it's like an all-you-can-eat breakfast buffet that serves nothing but reconstituted eggs and Yoplait. You know there’s a gourmet, peer-reviewed omelet station around here somewhere, but you won't find it by wandering around the main rotunda of Google's sad smorgasbord.

This expresses a lot of my feelings with the modern web experience really well. I feel like I'm constantly in "avoid" mode and it's becoming more and more difficult to get to content of actual substance and you are constantly being bombarded by garbage that is becoming more and more AI generated, making the volume higher and quality/relevancy even worse.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#420

Post by WalterBright »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #405
WalterBright wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When did that happen? Not all at once, but decision by decision. One big change was when the AMA was granted a monopoly over the education of doctors. Then there was when companies got around wage controls in WW2 by tying health insurance to employment. Then in the 1960s there was enormous expansion of the FDA, and then Medicare and Medicaid. Then there were laws that required emergency rooms to treat people for fr…

Present your case - show that it worked well before government.

The US had the longest life expectancy in the world.
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