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Ask HN: How do I leave a startup on philosophical grounds?

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11–20 of 23 posts

Re: Ask HN: How do I leave a startup on philosophical grounds?

#11
Leave as soon as possible. You don't like it. You could easily be employed elsewhere you would like.

It also sounds like an unhealthy situation: imbalanced team, sketchy uncertain compensation (cash/equity), low respect, nothing to help you with where you need to grow (which includes both technical peers and having the confidence to interview elsewhere).

No point in trying to rush something to 'complete' and only then leave. Software is never done. They'll need to get more engineers in any case, those new engineers should do it the way they'll need to.

Respect anything you've signed so far; don't sign anything new; don't directly compete or take anything you wrote for the current unpaid project with you.

Though you say the CEO is nice, it also sounds like you're being a little bullied, and expect to get more 'temper' from people when you leave. Brush it off; it's their situation and emotional reactions, not an objective analysis of things. Don't get into a long discussion, don't accept a 'counter-offer' or promise of change. Go elsewhere definitively.

Re: Ask HN: How do I leave a startup on philosophical grounds?

#12
post #5

You're not being paid a salary... but you don't have equity? Get out now. It's a deathtrap.

That sums it up.

I'm just curious -- why would you agree to "work" at a startup that is not compensating you? Not even vesting equity?

My feeling is the reason they don't have any other engineers is because they couldn't sucker anyone else into this...

Re: Ask HN: How do I leave a startup on philosophical grounds?

#13
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sums it up.

I'm just curious -- why would you agree to "work" at a startup that is not compensating you? Not even vesting equity? My feeling is the reason they don't have any other engineers is because they couldn't sucker anyone else into this...

"It'll look good in your portfolio/resume/etc."

Re: Ask HN: How do I leave a startup on philosophical grounds?

#14
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sums it up.

I'm just curious -- why would you agree to "work" at a startup that is not compensating you? Not even vesting equity? My feeling is the reason they don't have any other engineers is because they couldn't sucker anyone else into this...

I'm really passionate about the idea and the technology (that could be behind this), and apparently I'm young and dumb. Basically.

Re: Ask HN: How do I leave a startup on philosophical grounds?

#16
You need to get out. "Are you hiring?" Everyone is hiring. Especially in SF. You have absolutely no reason to stay at a "job" that isn't both compensating you extremely well and respecting you, and this one is doing neither.

And don't worry about dooming the company. You owe them absolutely nothing. Zero. Well, negative, since they owe you a lot. If the company thinks it can get by with a single unpaid engineer, they're not going very far anyway, and this will be a good wake-up call that they need to re-evaluate their priorities.

If you really can't keep yourself from feeling bad about leaving them, offer to work for market rate (something like $100/hour as a consultant) for a little while so you can finish up the product and give them some time to find someone else, but don't work another day for them without knowing that you'll be immediately compensated. And set a hard deadline, like 30 days, for when you're out of there, because you shouldn't stay anywhere that doesn't respect you for too long even if they are paying you.

And yes, technical interviews around here are pretty tough, but the only way to see if you can make it through is to try a few. It sounds like you're smart enough to do very well at them.

Shameless plug time: I interned at Cloudera this summer. I had a great time and learned a ton. The people there are extremely smart. A huge proportion of the company are engineers, and pretty much all of the management is highly technical. They'd be very interested in talking to someone who hacks on NoSQL databases and is active in ML research. I could see you on the platform team, contributing to HBase and/or Mahout, and there are some Data Science and Solution Architect roles that could involve your ML experience.

Here's the careers page: http://www.cloudera.com/company/careers/

Re: Ask HN: How do I leave a startup on philosophical grounds?

#17
post #4

Tons of people are hiring, and anyone that said "you only know computers, so don't tell me how to do my job" is not "a nice lady". However, your CEO is correct in that you are absolutely, incredibly naive. You are being taken advantage of, and are being naive by staying. You are also being naive by thinking that your lack of a university degree is an impediment. Gates, Jobs, Zuck were all dropouts.

Thank you for your frankness Yuri, I'll take this into consideration.

Page & Yang were dropouts too and the list goes on and on... There is something I don't understand in your story. There seem to be a couple of employees and you seem to be the only developer... Did this lady found a way to hire a team without paying anybody or are you the only one? Pay "cuts" usually come with a lager equity grant... very simple equation : share the risk, share the benefit. In your situation it doesn't really matter at this point. The main reason you should leave is the CEO... She seems clueless (based on your description) especially when she says you're naive and "that everybody does it" (spamming twitter) and that's why you guys should do it... If everybody "does it" and it annoys users then it's exactly the reason not to do it. A successfull consumer startup is about doing something new, smart, unexpectedly helpfull to users and surprisingly disruptive to the industry... Spamming users is the naive approach! Lesson learned... The lesson here is that the people you chose to work with are more important then the ideas you will possibly work on... I'm working on a recommendation engine too, I'd love to chat with you...

Re: Ask HN: How do I leave a startup on philosophical grounds?

#18

Don't burn bridges - be polite, give at least two weeks' notice, don't get into arguments. Smile, thank them for the learning opportunity and wish them all the best.

give at least two weeks' notice

There's no reason to work a single minute more for free for these people.

Re: Ask HN: How do I leave a startup on philosophical grounds?

#19
It's during situations like these that I wish the votes could be displayed in HN, just so that you would get a feel of how opinions weigh. There are many answers that I'd vote up in here, but that doesn't convey to you the strength of the message. So we have to resort to reiterating it:

- You're saying the CEO doesn't share your moral objections and even derides them. Did it cross your mind that maybe she's the type who also wouldn't mind tricking someone to work for her for free? Sounds to me like you're probably being taken advantage of, so get out. Once out, stay out. There isn't much to advocate for, in a relationship that starts with one party taking advantage of another.

- don't sweat your lack of diploma.

- I haven't made a cv in a while, but I'd advise you to meet with someone that could help you refine yours and prepare for interviews.

- try to get an idea of what you would be worth in the current market. I've seen a few posts on HN and some Stack Exchange sites discussing the topic. I believe you're capable of digging up that information, or maybe someone would be kind enough to post some links. That sort of info isn't pinpoint accurate, but having even ballpark numbers is always comforting when making demands and in your case, I feel that you could use the reassurance.

Re: Ask HN: How do I leave a startup on philosophical grounds?

#20
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your frankness Yuri, I'll take this into consideration.

Page & Yang were dropouts too and the list goes on and on... There is something I don't understand in your story. There seem to be a couple of employees and you seem to be the only developer... Did this lady found a way to hire a team without paying anybody or are you the only one? Pay "cuts" usually come with a lager equity grant... very simple equation : share the risk, share the benefit. In your situation it doesn…

I'm not sure, I have never asked anyone else about their compensation or explained mine, I've always heard that is impolite to do at a company.

However, I do always enjoy talking about technology, if you have any questions you'd like to run by me I'm more than happy to chat!

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