Blockchain Is Dangerous Nonsense • Hacker News Board

Re: Blockchain Is Dangerous Nonsense

#121

Post by DarkWiiPlayer » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 9:44 AM UTC

It's interesting how the radicalisation of crypto-advocates seems to be radicalising the critics just as much.

I see this in myself too: I used to be very sceptical of cryptocurrencies, but generally liked the idea as a concept. I used to think of it as a technology in need of some more smart ideas before it could eventually become very stable.

But with time, and specially with the appearance of NFTs (which, let's be clear about it, are nothing more than a scam in 99% of cases), as well as the incredibly bullshit I heard from some web3 advocates, I ended up hating anything crypto, including cryptocurrencies, which I objectively find to be one very useful application of public append-only ledgers.

So here's the thing: I think at some point, the bubble will burst. It has to, at some point; that's just inevitable for a bubble of this size. NFTs will crash and be forgotten for a few years until some legitimate applications start to show up.

Web3 will either be talked about until web4 comes around (whatever unfounded hype that will be about) and quickly forgotten, or it will stay around long enough to show to the world how utterly pointless the whole idea really is. In either case, it isn't here to stay.

Bitcoin will probably stay around for a while, constantly increasing in value as wallets continue to be lost until at some point it is accepted that it simply isn't sustainable anymore. At that point, people will probably jump over to some newer cryptocurrency, hopefully a more reasonable one without too much bullshit built in.

Re: Blockchain Is Dangerous Nonsense

#122

Post by Grustaf » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 9:45 AM UTC

nottorp wrote: post #91

Grustaf wrote: post #18

I'm very sceptical of blockchain (though I've been in crypto off and on since 2013) but most of the arguments in this article are non-sensical. For example: > But even if all code was without mistakes, blockchains can’t do anything against threats like scams, fraud, hacking of devices with keys for the blochain or just plain old typos in a coin transfer. I don't think protection against human-factor scams and frauds…

> > But even if all code was without mistakes, blockchains can’t do anything against threats like scams, fraud, hacking of devices with keys for the blochain or just plain old typos in a coin transfer. > I don't think protection against human-factor scams and frauds was ever a goal, you certainly never hear it as an argument. The problem is any payment system DOES need that. And the competition has it. Abstract goals…

I don't agree at all. It is definitely a nice feature, but as with everything else, it's a trade-off. Most people, today, want these features, but it's definitely not true that a payment system "has to" have them. Cash largely doesn't.

It's like saying that any messaging system needs to be traceable, so you can see who sent you something. That is convenient and useful, but we survived until email without it.

Re: Blockchain Is Dangerous Nonsense

#123

Post by Hbruz0 » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 9:45 AM UTC

mightyRodri wrote: post #21

onebot wrote: post #3

It amazes me how polarizing blockchain and cryptocurrency is. It is to black/white, love/hate. I really don't ever remember a technology that has created such a visceral reaction from people. I personally, believe there is a quite novel concept behind the trust-less consensus mechanisms. It amazes me that computers can come to an agreement in a hostile environment--fully decentralized. How that is put to use in pract…

There is no baby. The technology does not solve technical problems that havent been solved better. The only thing bchains does is give ppl with a lot of money to become stakeholders, the possibility to comodify even more parts of the internet. Thats the only upside of the technology, scam ppl for their money. https://www.stephendiehl.com/blog/against-crypto.html https://web3isgoinggreat.com/

double spending problem, anyone ?

Re: Blockchain Is Dangerous Nonsense

#124

Post by drdeca » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 9:45 AM UTC

tirpen wrote: post #84

mike_d wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What technical solution do you have for multiple parties needing to transact where they do not trust each other and cannot depend on a third party or the court system for dispute resolution? I'll wait.

My suggestion is: "grow up". All of human society is based on trust, and it works just fine and has for centuries. Who would even want to live in a trust less society? That sounds like hell.

This is not a technical solution.

Re: Blockchain Is Dangerous Nonsense

#125

Post by mandmandam » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 9:45 AM UTC

Block lattice > Blockchain, and anyone who write a long-ass article about how pointless/dangerous/dumb cryptocurrencies are without mentioning block lattice is about 6 years behind the times.

The fact that so far this has been the case for every ranticle I've seen on HN the past 6 years would suggest that we aren't as quick to recognise new tech as we'd like to think - not by a long, long long shot.

This probably sounds like a pitch, because I'm not a marketer, but the facts are the facts. Block lattice outperforms blockchain on every metric, and never gets talked about here.

Re: Blockchain Is Dangerous Nonsense

#126

Post by quickthrower2 » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 9:45 AM UTC

DrBazza wrote: post #12

I wish these authors would define exactly "which blockchain" they hate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockchain "A blockchain is a growing list of records, called blocks, that are securely linked together using cryptography." So, yeah, git and mercurial are "dangerous nonsense". But of course they're really talking about cryptocurrencies and smart contracts, right? So why not put that in the title?

Blockchains have blocks, with some distributed consensus mechanism to decide which chain of blocks is trusted most.

Re: Blockchain Is Dangerous Nonsense

#127

Post by Grustaf » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 9:45 AM UTC

dmitriid wrote: post #82

Grustaf wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not necessarily a flaw in the technology, it's just one way in which it differs from what we are used to. I think most coiners, who skew strongly libertarian, would argue that it's up to you to make sure your smart contracts work.

> I think most coiners, who skew strongly libertarian, would argue that it's up to you to make sure your smart contracts work. Ah yes, it's up to the user to review and debug code written in an esoteric programming language to make sure that it works... When even creators of said contracts can't find bugs in their code and fall prey to mistakes (sometimes after multiple audits)

Yes exactly.

Re: Blockchain Is Dangerous Nonsense

#128

Post by hestefisk » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 9:46 AM UTC

Grustaf wrote: post #18

I'm very sceptical of blockchain (though I've been in crypto off and on since 2013) but most of the arguments in this article are non-sensical. For example: > But even if all code was without mistakes, blockchains can’t do anything against threats like scams, fraud, hacking of devices with keys for the blochain or just plain old typos in a coin transfer. I don't think protection against human-factor scams and frauds…

The problem with the article is that there are no real arguments besides citing other articles. At best, it’s a summary of Bruce Schneier’s works with a catchy headline.

I’m not a blockchain die-hard, but there are some solid practical uses. For instance, in trade finance where multiple parties in an environment with limited trust have to settle a complex transaction asynchronously, blockchain / DLT can really help. Have a look at Corda/R3 as an example; there’s a reason why big financial institutions are investing a lot in this space because it can really drive efficiencies.

As with most things in life, the answer is seldom black or white. The same rule applies to blockchain as well.

Re: Blockchain Is Dangerous Nonsense

#129

Post by jychang » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 9:46 AM UTC

y4mi wrote: post #69

okintheory wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems a bit off to assert that "people feel it is a price worth paying" when almost all purchases online are made with credit cards which have some protections against fraud, and almost none are made with blockchains in comparison. It seems like so far, most people don't think it's a price worth paying?

I'd go one step further: the few legal purchases done with crypto currencies are mostly done by people unaware they're paying that price

Purchases, perhaps. Money transfer, definitely not. Bitcoin is a pretty cheap way to transfer money across international borders.

A person probably wouldn't use bitcoin at the grocery store to buy milk, but it works better for sending grandma (located in a third world country) a bunch of money.

Re: Blockchain Is Dangerous Nonsense

#130

Post by psyc » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 9:46 AM UTC

bbno4 wrote: post #25

i am so sick and tired of hackernews upvoting every single "blockchain bad" article to the top that contains non-sensical and wrong information

At least I get to see quite clearly how and why people differ. And it looks irreconcilable to me, and based on deep political and civic values.