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Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

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Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#361

Post by nick__m »

ipaddr wrote: post #344
salsadip wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I‘m really not trying to sound snarky, but - is this the supposedly high quality treatment that U.S. citizens get that is so much more expensive as opposed to the „socialized“ insurance we get in Europe that is cheaper for everybody and supposedly therefore not as good/cutting edge?

This is also Canada with even more socialized medicine compared to Europe.

The Canadian system (well the one in Québec anyway, each province manages it's own system so I cannot tell about the other province. Hell, I cannot even tell about the one in other administrative regions inside Québec) has a big luck component.

If your lucky enough to have an accessible primary care physician who personally knows specialist and lives where there is a University hospital center, the system is awesome. If you don't, the system appears to be a special kind of administrative hell.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#362

Post by asdff »

323 wrote: post #252
JamesAdir wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the optimal shape?

From my research the most important thing is for it to have soft bristles with round bristle heads (obviously you can't check bristle heads with your eyes, too small). Most you find in supermarkets have medium or hard bristles. The head shouldn't be too big, so that it can reach even in the back. Rubber inserts are not recommended, as they tend to irritate the gum. Typically the better ones look more plain - no multi…

Are there any brands with these characteristics?

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#363

Post by asdff »

kcplate wrote: post #64

I have two “Cadillac” dental insurance plans. When I sit down in the chair I just inform them that I am not interested in any service that is not fully covered by my insurances, and if its partially covered, I want a pretty detailed breakdown of why I need it before I will agree to the service. Usually this stops the service upselling.

Dental insurance is sort of crappy in that what we think might be important treatments are sometimes classified as cosmetic and not covered (like implants). This is why there is a cottage industry of dentists doing implants for cheap in Tijuana.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#364

Post by ipaddr »

ryandrake wrote: post #230
vasco wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your opinion is that if research tells you that you should overrule a doctor's opinion, the right course of action is to not bring it up, not do the research in the first place, because the doctor "knows better"? In my opinion if you disagree or have doubts about treatment you should definitely bring those up with your doctor, see what they say about your reservations, and either get convinced or find some second…

Everyone's using that word in this thread: research. Watching a bunch of YouTube videos is not research. Browsing medical web sites and choosing "treatments" that are cleverly and subtly marketed to you is not research. Matching your symptoms with a TV ad is not research. We saw what two years of "dO yOuR oWn ReSeArCh!" left us with during a deadly pandemic. We're all dunking on doctors in this thread, but look at it…

The internet with the latest and most information available to mankind can be ignored?

If someone gets information from video format they should be ignored?

If someone came in and wanted to have a conversation about a medical product they recently heard about they shouldn't go to their doctor with questions?

Sounds like someone is close to retirement or leaving the field with that attitude. Those are all valid concerns the general public may have. That's your job as a gp (to schedule appointments while patients tell you things you suggest your ideas).

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#366

Post by AussieWog93 »

jnovek wrote: post #40

“ Medicine has become a three-way negotiation between you, your doctor, and The Algorithm.” This characterization makes it sound like a good thing. In reality, the doctor’s responsibility is being pushed to the patient because they are overbooked in the name of economic efficiency. As a patient with complex, non-specific medical condition, I can tell you how miserable this is. I can’t count on doctors _at all_ to mov…

>The rest of the American medical system? Gatekeepers that block access to potential treatment pathways until you can convince them it’s worth a try.

It's not just America. We have exactly the same issues here in Australia.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#367

Post by AngryData »

bostonsre wrote: post #78
pc86 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to the same dentist for years as a child. Brushed my teeth once a day, never had any issues at all. All of sudden, during a regular checkup, he told my parents (I was ~15 at the time) that I had 9 cavities and needed fillings. In the 20 years since, I have never had a single cavity. And what a shock, he sold his practice between that procedure and my next checkup. I fully believe he was just pumping up his rev…

> as opposed to chiropractors, who are universally charlatans and frauds I take it you've never thrown your back out and had an adjustment that fixed a lot of pain?

Yeah I think people are blinding themselves to the huge differences between chiropractors and just lumping all of what they do into one single bucket and tossing it out. In physical labor heavy areas they help a lot and 90% of their business comes from relieving pinched nerves, fixing dislocations, deep tissue massages, and physical therapy regimes. Nothing quacky about that, especially when it is hard to find a doctor these days who will put their knee into your back and pop your shoulder out and back into the proper place instead of prescribing narcotics and endless rest for weeks on end that is not feasible in those communities.

But on the other end of the scale, you also got ones who don't have that sort of business and are selling new-age crystal moon beam energy healing power and claiming anything and everything they can sell you will cure you of any and all ills which I think most people would consider irresponsible and dangerous.

One side argues for chiropractors because of what they do above on top of being super cheap and affordable for the average labor worker. The other side argues against it because they only see new-age crystal therapy in their areas while also being able to themselves afford better healthcare with a significantly less physically damaging workload.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#368

Post by AussieWog93 »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #322
JamesBarney wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are too many patients and not enough doctors. This isn't caused by capitalism, capitalism doesn't limit the # of doctors. Becoming socialist doesn't magically allow doctors to see patients for twice as long. If we had socialism more people could afford doctors(a good thing!) but it would make this specific problem worse, because there would be more patients. This is caused by the AMA lobbying to limit the suppl…

It’s funny you say this has nothing to do with capitalism but all the countries you listed have largely socialized medicine. Once capital gets power it uses a government to enforce that power.

I live in a country with (mostly) free health care and we have 6-month wait lists too. Same shit in the UK, who invented the NHS.

Please stop blaming every problem on your ideological pet peeve. Society is too complex for every single issue to be caused by capitalism, financialisation, the patriarchy or systemic racism.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#369

Post by fallinghawks »

ThinkingGuy wrote: post #177
matsemann wrote: post #12

Why are dentists so scammy? In Norway I've seen documentaries about them sending the same people to multiple dentists, and some of them receive wildly different advice. Some of that can be ascribed to some being in the school of pro-active, so they want to fix your teeth at the first glance of issues. But in the end, most of the things being quoted were unnecessary. They all seemed very intent on removing wisdom teet…

One explanation I've heard (don't remember which news source) is that dentists just don't have as much demand as in previous decades. Due to improvements in hygiene, and public health measures such as water fluoridation, children get fewer cavities and adults lose fewer teeth ("having an insufficient number of teeth" was once a major cause of men being rejected from the military draft). So dentists have had to pivot…

And some dentists are straight up charlatans wanting to line their pockets. When I moved across the bay I left my dentist of 10+ years and went in search of someone closer. I admit to delaying a couple years, but found a place, got cleaned and x-rayed. The dentist told me I had 13 cavities that needed to be tended to. I was pretty shocked; I don't have great teeth, but to have developed that many cavities in such a short time seemed wrong. I went back to my old dentist for a second opinion and he told me that I had 2 genuine cavities at the edges of old fillings, but the rest of it was pretty much nonsense: amalgam fillings that could be replaced with porcelain for appearance but were still perfectly good, and some slight discolorations that were not actually cavities.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#370

Post by majormajor »

brimble wrote: post #129
jnovek wrote: post #40

“ Medicine has become a three-way negotiation between you, your doctor, and The Algorithm.” This characterization makes it sound like a good thing. In reality, the doctor’s responsibility is being pushed to the patient because they are overbooked in the name of economic efficiency. As a patient with complex, non-specific medical condition, I can tell you how miserable this is. I can’t count on doctors _at all_ to mov…

Can confirm. They paint people who google symptoms as kooks or as annoying, but you have to if you ever want to get an actual diagnosis and treatment, because doctors and hospitals are, quite often, worse than Google at figuring out WTF is wrong. Do your best not to end up in a hospital without an advocate (friend, relative) watching out for you. They'll fail to treat you at best, then discharge you with a shrug and…

A hospital isn't the place to be unless you have a specific, acute need to be there.

They're looking to stabilize you and get you able to survive outside the hospital, not to solve a mystery.

Great place to go if you need it, though. Got internal bleeding? Get that taken care of. The risk of a debilitating or fatal hospital error isn't that high, so absolutely go when the risk of not going is high.

TV, though, has trained us to expect to get everything figured out and root causes solved too. Unfortunately, that's just not realistic even if many of the complaints in this thread were solved. There are a lot of nasty rare diseases and conditions, and strange manifestations of conditions, that will still be missed if they have 60 minutes with you instead of 8.

You should also realize that doctor quality varies as much as any other skill. SHOP AROUND. I've had better luck with second, third opinions than I have trying to pester an original doctor into changing their mind. There are doctors out there who appreciate it if you bring up a written self-history of the condition, the strange aspects or other things that may or may not be related, what has or hasn't worked so far, etc.

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