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Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

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Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#241

Post by UncleMeat »

lupire wrote: post #97
ceejayoz wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but there's been a lot of this in the US. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/patients-pressure... > Former employees say Aspen Dental trained them in high-pressure sales. Corporate management scrutinizes the production of dentists and staff daily. And internal documents show that dentists get paid bonuses as key production targets are met. https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/health/2018/01/10/koo..…

> 2013. So they never got punished?

My wife went to Aspen recently (we didn't know better). They told her that she had periodontal disease and needed an expensive procedure. She was shuffled into a "financing" room before even completing her checkup. While waiting, she Googled Aspen and figured out that this happens to oodles of people, declined, and went to another dentist. No problems detected.

In addition to being a scam organization, we got to see the group of people in the waiting rooms at Aspen vs our current dentist. As you can imagine, the folks waiting in the Aspen waiting room are observably less wealthy and are statistically going to be less able to defend themselves against medical scams.

Evil organization.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#242

Post by Auracle »

alistairSH wrote: post #149
Spivak wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to condone terrible drug advertisements but man there has to be something to let people know that their "normal" suffering isn't normal or that there are new developments that your PCP for sure isn't gonna keep up with. I know the meme de jour is teens diagnosing themselves with ADHD because of TikTok but it's the perfect example of a whole bunch of people being like "holy shit it's not supposed to be…

there has to be something to let people know that their "normal" suffering isn't normal or that there are new developments that your PCP for sure isn't gonna keep up with. That should be the doctor's job. Doctors have too much financial pressure to pump patients through, so they have neither the time to get to know individual patients nor time to keep abreast of current trends in their speciality. Should MedicineX be…

Sure, but people need to first know what they're dealing with isn't normal before they can even ask about it.

I have really, really bad fatigue. It took me years to figure out everyone else didn't feel that way. I was in high school and was able to skate by on intelligence alone.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#243

Post by Auracle »

jnovek wrote: post #40

“ Medicine has become a three-way negotiation between you, your doctor, and The Algorithm.” This characterization makes it sound like a good thing. In reality, the doctor’s responsibility is being pushed to the patient because they are overbooked in the name of economic efficiency. As a patient with complex, non-specific medical condition, I can tell you how miserable this is. I can’t count on doctors _at all_ to mov…

For anyone reading this, I've found good success in printing out actual studies or other relevant literature and bringing it to the doctor. It lets them know that while you've done your own research, it wasn't stupid YouTube research.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#244

Post by jayd16 »

pc86 wrote: post #147
richbell wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I take it you've never thrown your back out and had an adjustment that fixed a lot of pain? A _good_ chiropractor will only perform adjustments, but the foundations of Chiropractic "medicine" is pseudoscience that many still practice to this day. Wikipedia has a good summary on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic#Pseudoscience_ver... But, in my opinion, if you're only going to a chiropractor for adjust…

If you're reading this and haven't, please click the Wikipedia link. Scroll down to the photo labeled "A chiropractic manipulation of a horse." I hope it makes you laugh as much as it did for me.

There's a million videos of pets and animals getting adjusted on youtube. Hard to take any of it as a serious science. Search "Goose chiropractics."

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#245

Post by andreareina »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #213
malfist wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that cut and dry. Just because you have a small carie doesn't mean it's only going to get worse. That's the reason for fluoride in our water, in our toothpaste and in the wax the dentists applies at the end of your cleaning (that for some reason, insurance never wants to pay for). Fluoride treatments and good dental hygiene can reverse carries. Carries should only be treated if they're large, or if they're s…

And did you know dental plaque and tartar are actually protecting your teeth? And just because vanity we want to get it removed? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17016887/

In vitro study shows that plaque protects against externally-applied acid. Ok. Now what about the acid produced by the bacteria hiding behind the plaque?

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#246

Post by Auracle »

salsadip wrote: post #119
gtirloni wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gatekeepers that block access to potential treatment pathways until you can convince them it’s worth a try. You assume they actually know what needs to be done. In my experience, you can see they don't have a clue and aren't willing to do research to learn. They just hand out their usual prescriptions, etc and sometimes hope an exam will give them an obvious answer. On top of that, most doctors only have a very nar…

I‘m really not trying to sound snarky, but - is this the supposedly high quality treatment that U.S. citizens get that is so much more expensive as opposed to the „socialized“ insurance we get in Europe that is cheaper for everybody and supposedly therefore not as good/cutting edge?

If you go to the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota you'll see people from all over the world for a reason. It feels like the UN, where everyone has some sort of debilitating disease.

They have a system where you get evaluated by a general practitioner (or someone more relevant), and then they schedule you to see however many specialists you might need to see - all within a day or two.

It's not perfect, and I've found it's still hard to get them to drill deep on anything not life threatening or obviously testable. That said, I very much doubt that system exists anywhere with socialized medicine. You don't need a referral or anything else to go. You just call and make an appointment.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#247

Post by denvaar »

I have been dealing with "mysterious" pelvic pain (cpps) for about 8 months or so. No doctor has been able to figure out what is wrong with me. The process of working with doctors has been traumatizing to say the least. I once had trust in our medical system, but my perspective has changed.

I now have little faith in most doctors ability to solve my medical problems. I recall someone on HN saying they are basically "chat bots", and sadly, I find that to be an accurate description. I've turned mostly to the internet for help. The internet has both helped and harmed me, though I would say overall has been less harmful than the experiences I've had with doctors.

Doing my own research on the internet does make me feel like a "kook", but I would not even have a label for my condition if I had not done so. I can live with some discomfort if I can at least put a label on what I am feeling. It's also comforting to know there's people out there with the same condition as you.

I have access to research and studies online, but if the doctor was not aware of it, they are quick to discredit it.

The one thing I am grateful for about seeing doctors is their ability to rule out the common/serious conditions. That has been helpful, although I have found that simply "getting permission" for a procedure, or to see some specialist, is way too difficult. Often times specialists are booked out for months. It's so discouraging.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#248

Post by resoluteteeth »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #213
malfist wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that cut and dry. Just because you have a small carie doesn't mean it's only going to get worse. That's the reason for fluoride in our water, in our toothpaste and in the wax the dentists applies at the end of your cleaning (that for some reason, insurance never wants to pay for). Fluoride treatments and good dental hygiene can reverse carries. Carries should only be treated if they're large, or if they're s…

And did you know dental plaque and tartar are actually protecting your teeth? And just because vanity we want to get it removed? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17016887/

Just because having plaque on your teeth will block acids doesn't mean it's actually a good idea not to clean your teeth.

I guess if you could show a study showing that leaving plaque/tartar on teeth leads to better health outcomes I might be interested.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#249

Post by albertzeyer »

You could also argue that Google is actually doing a good job here.

Simple heuristic: All results from the first two search result pages don't provide much/any evidence that LBR is helpful or worth is -> it is not.

This simple heuristic is often quite good.

If it would have been a useful method, I would expect to find some good serious pages, or maybe Wikipedia page on it.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#250

Post by raxxorraxor »

jnovek wrote: post #40

“ Medicine has become a three-way negotiation between you, your doctor, and The Algorithm.” This characterization makes it sound like a good thing. In reality, the doctor’s responsibility is being pushed to the patient because they are overbooked in the name of economic efficiency. As a patient with complex, non-specific medical condition, I can tell you how miserable this is. I can’t count on doctors _at all_ to mov…

If you have something exotic you are basically on your own. Maybe you live outside the city where a doctor knows every patient by name and is really invested in research or you find a clinical study that might align with your conditions, but chances for that latter are extremely low.
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