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Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

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Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#101

Post by lupire »

mrits wrote: post #37
matsemann wrote: post #12

Why are dentists so scammy? In Norway I've seen documentaries about them sending the same people to multiple dentists, and some of them receive wildly different advice. Some of that can be ascribed to some being in the school of pro-active, so they want to fix your teeth at the first glance of issues. But in the end, most of the things being quoted were unnecessary. They all seemed very intent on removing wisdom teet…

While I have heard of plenty of scammy dentists myself, I don't see a reason to complain about them cleaning your teeth. If you actually told them you just got your teeth cleaned that is a different issue though.

The 10th dentist didn't notice there was no tartar?

Or the first 9 didn't remove the tartar?

Which is the good option?

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#102

Post by richbell »

bostonsre wrote: post #78
pc86 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to the same dentist for years as a child. Brushed my teeth once a day, never had any issues at all. All of sudden, during a regular checkup, he told my parents (I was ~15 at the time) that I had 9 cavities and needed fillings. In the 20 years since, I have never had a single cavity. And what a shock, he sold his practice between that procedure and my next checkup. I fully believe he was just pumping up his rev…

> as opposed to chiropractors, who are universally charlatans and frauds I take it you've never thrown your back out and had an adjustment that fixed a lot of pain?

> I take it you've never thrown your back out and had an adjustment that fixed a lot of pain?

A _good_ chiropractor will only perform adjustments, but the foundations of Chiropractic "medicine" is pseudoscience that many still practice to this day. Wikipedia has a good summary on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic#Pseudoscience_ver...

But, in my opinion, if you're only going to a chiropractor for adjustments you'd be better off finding a Registered Massage Therapist or Physical Therapist (depending on your level of pain).

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#103

Post by ceejayoz »

lupire wrote: post #97
ceejayoz wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but there's been a lot of this in the US. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/patients-pressure... > Former employees say Aspen Dental trained them in high-pressure sales. Corporate management scrutinizes the production of dentists and staff daily. And internal documents show that dentists get paid bonuses as key production targets are met. https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/health/2018/01/10/koo..…

> 2013. So they never got punished?

"Kool Smiles to pay $23.9 million" sounds like they're being punished?

They typically settle and sometimes pay a fine.

https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2015/ag-schneiderman-announc...

I suspect they still make more profit than they lose in fines.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#104

Post by mbg721 »

drspock11 wrote: post #87

What the article author doesn't seem to realize is much of dentistry (and medicine in general) is not based on evidence. There is zero clinical evidence that flossing actually does anything beneficial. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lack of evidence for 6-month cleanings actually being beneficial. Similarly, doctors make decisions based mostly on hunches and gut feelings unless you're actively bleeding from a…

Something is working, even if it may not be clear specifically what that is. My grandfather had a full set of false teeth by the time he was the age my parents are now. The other big change in that time would be diet, but I don't think more refined sugar improves tooth quality.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#105

Post by lupire »

coryrc wrote: post #94
delecti wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dentists don’t remove wisdom teeth, they just refer you to an oral surgeon Bit of a meaningless distinction if they're in the same office.

In the US, that would be rare.

Pointless nitpick, especially because providers pay referral fees.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#106

Post by crdrost »

Zigurd wrote: post #32
jcranberry wrote: post #20

Sounds like Google Scholar saved the author from being swindled into spending $400 by their dentist. The old thing to do was to get a second opinions. I wonder how that would have fared comparatively in this case.

Thing is, the misinformation was prioritized to the top of the search. Is it the place of online platforms to filter out misinformation?

I mean in the broadest sense that's a cultural question and most big online platforms have decided that it is their place—Facebook and Twitter in particular—because of pressures from the public.

In a much, much narrower sense, we are talking about Google and not an online platform. Google's explicit mission is, “to organize the world's information and make it universally accessible and useful.” Like, filtering out misinformation is literally the thing that Google says is its purpose.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#107

Post by jonhohle »

specialp wrote: post #59
geek_at wrote: post #4

> In the pre-Szaszian era, medicine was something that happened to you. You would put your health in your doctor's hands and they would unilaterally decide your course of treatment. But in today's patient-centered world, doctors are more like consultants To be honest I've only seen this level of "patient-centered" stuff in the US. Never heard the phrase "Ask your doctor about xy" anywhere but on US TV. Sometimes pret…

> Never heard the phrase "Ask your doctor about xy" anywhere but on US TV. Sometimes pretty hard drugs like psychotropic drugs. When I first head it my response was "WTF, shouldn't the doctor tell you what you need and not the other way around?" This was the case for many years where it was illegal to have advertisements for prescription medicines. They lifted this like 15 years ago. This was very favorable for the p…

It’s been closer to 25 now. Bob Dole was shilling for Pfizer’s Viagra in the 90s.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#108

Post by lupire »

gehwartzen wrote: post #24
matsemann wrote: post #12

Why are dentists so scammy? In Norway I've seen documentaries about them sending the same people to multiple dentists, and some of them receive wildly different advice. Some of that can be ascribed to some being in the school of pro-active, so they want to fix your teeth at the first glance of issues. But in the end, most of the things being quoted were unnecessary. They all seemed very intent on removing wisdom teet…

At least in the US its because dental insurance isn't part of normal health insurance. Dental insurance mostly just covers the bare bones (teeth?) treatments like regular cleanings and an xray every couple of years. SO in order for the Dentist to make money they ahve to upsell every other treatment not covered by insurance. With regulars health insurance the doc is payed for pretty much any specific treatment they de…

I'm curious if you'll reread your comment and can see how you disproved your own point.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#109

Post by jonhohle »

jnovek wrote: post #40

“ Medicine has become a three-way negotiation between you, your doctor, and The Algorithm.” This characterization makes it sound like a good thing. In reality, the doctor’s responsibility is being pushed to the patient because they are overbooked in the name of economic efficiency. As a patient with complex, non-specific medical condition, I can tell you how miserable this is. I can’t count on doctors _at all_ to mov…

Are there any laws that treat medical providers as fiduciaries? That seems like a minimum bar that insurance companies would want to enforce (at least in the short term when premiums could remain high while treatment cost plummets).

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#110

Post by Nextgrid »

imglorp wrote: post #10
darkerside wrote: post #3

This is the kind of marketing-driven content I can actually get behind, not joking. Glacier MD at least has the problem right.

What's to stop Glacier from becoming the same as Google for the same reasons? That's a mountain of med ad cash on the table.

Competition? If they become the equivalent of Google, why would anyone pay them to get the same kind of content they can get from Google for free?
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