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Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

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Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#91

Post by pc86 »

bostonsre wrote: post #78
pc86 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to the same dentist for years as a child. Brushed my teeth once a day, never had any issues at all. All of sudden, during a regular checkup, he told my parents (I was ~15 at the time) that I had 9 cavities and needed fillings. In the 20 years since, I have never had a single cavity. And what a shock, he sold his practice between that procedure and my next checkup. I fully believe he was just pumping up his rev…

> as opposed to chiropractors, who are universally charlatans and frauds I take it you've never thrown your back out and had an adjustment that fixed a lot of pain?

That a chiropractor can relieve pain doesn't mean that chiropractics in the "medical" sense isn't a fraud. Imaging that shown the entire concept of "subluxations" in the chiropractic sense are a myth.

I've gone to chiropractors for manipulations. Some even were able to bill my insurance (yet surprisingly the cash price was the same as my insurance copay, imagine that). But I treat it the same as getting a massage. It feels good, and I might feel better after, but it's absolutely not any sort of medical science.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#92

Post by OJFord »

donatj wrote: post #17
matsemann wrote: post #12

Why are dentists so scammy? In Norway I've seen documentaries about them sending the same people to multiple dentists, and some of them receive wildly different advice. Some of that can be ascribed to some being in the school of pro-active, so they want to fix your teeth at the first glance of issues. But in the end, most of the things being quoted were unnecessary. They all seemed very intent on removing wisdom teet…

I went to a new dentist for a broken filling and they tried to tell me I had 14 cavities and set me down with a finance person to set up a payment plan for how I was going to pay for them over the next 5 years. I went to a second dentist, they fixed the broken filling and said my teeth were otherwise fine. I have the paperwork to back this up. I’d been seeing another dentist for a while and he suddenly wanted to crow…

> I think a lot of dentistry comes down to how much money they need that month.

I notice that even with my NHS dentist and just in how long he recommends leaving it until next time.

When I went back after 18 months (on a recommendation of 12-18) I got a cursory checkup, probably the most glowing 'all fine' I've ever had, a routine X-ray (i.e. that wouldn't be due again for a while) and then he asked to see me in six. I double-took and confirmed, so booked in for six months.

(Then we had a pandemic and it was more than two years before I could get a non-emergent appointment. That went fine too.)

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#93

Post by gtirloni »

jnovek wrote: post #40

“ Medicine has become a three-way negotiation between you, your doctor, and The Algorithm.” This characterization makes it sound like a good thing. In reality, the doctor’s responsibility is being pushed to the patient because they are overbooked in the name of economic efficiency. As a patient with complex, non-specific medical condition, I can tell you how miserable this is. I can’t count on doctors _at all_ to mov…

> Gatekeepers that block access to potential treatment pathways until you can convince them it’s worth a try.

You assume they actually know what needs to be done. In my experience, you can see they don't have a clue and aren't willing to do research to learn. They just hand out their usual prescriptions, etc and sometimes hope an exam will give them an obvious answer.

On top of that, most doctors only have a very narrow understanding of the human body and don't know when to refer you to some other doctor they will be better equipped to help you.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#94

Post by coryrc »

delecti wrote: post #52
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dentists don’t remove wisdom teeth, they just refer you to an oral surgeon. The problem with wisdom teeth is that they increase maintenance requirements, it’s hard to clean back there and they can affect adjacent teeth if they do go bad. So I get why many dentists default suggest to remove them (I still have mine but recently started running into problems at 47).

> Dentists don’t remove wisdom teeth, they just refer you to an oral surgeon Bit of a meaningless distinction if they're in the same office.

In the US, that would be rare.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#95

Post by rightbyte »

vasco wrote: post #85
jnovek wrote: post #40

“ Medicine has become a three-way negotiation between you, your doctor, and The Algorithm.” This characterization makes it sound like a good thing. In reality, the doctor’s responsibility is being pushed to the patient because they are overbooked in the name of economic efficiency. As a patient with complex, non-specific medical condition, I can tell you how miserable this is. I can’t count on doctors _at all_ to mov…

Even if a doctor spends a bunch of time on you, you should still do research. End of the day you're the person that cares most about your health in the whole world, why should you just leave it to a random expert with good intentions? If you spend time researching and come to them with detailed information about your symptoms, what you already ruled out and things you've tried, as well as a good understanding of your…

I care most about my car, house etc in the whole world too.

The risk I guess is that being informed might make me want to overrule the experts. On a population scale the advice might be bad. Depends on how good the experts are.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#96

Post by gtirloni »

vasco wrote: post #85
jnovek wrote: post #40

“ Medicine has become a three-way negotiation between you, your doctor, and The Algorithm.” This characterization makes it sound like a good thing. In reality, the doctor’s responsibility is being pushed to the patient because they are overbooked in the name of economic efficiency. As a patient with complex, non-specific medical condition, I can tell you how miserable this is. I can’t count on doctors _at all_ to mov…

Even if a doctor spends a bunch of time on you, you should still do research. End of the day you're the person that cares most about your health in the whole world, why should you just leave it to a random expert with good intentions? If you spend time researching and come to them with detailed information about your symptoms, what you already ruled out and things you've tried, as well as a good understanding of your…

> being an active participant in your treatment is a great option.

It's not a great but a necessary option, unfortunately.

Better would be if they gave you a % of their salary in that case.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#97

Post by lupire »

ceejayoz wrote: post #75
tomxor wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unnecessary medical procedures are extremely immoral, do you mind sharing what country/practice this was in?

Not OP, but there's been a lot of this in the US. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/patients-pressure... > Former employees say Aspen Dental trained them in high-pressure sales. Corporate management scrutinizes the production of dentists and staff daily. And internal documents show that dentists get paid bonuses as key production targets are met. https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/health/2018/01/10/koo..…

> 2013.

So they never got punished?

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#98

Post by egberts1 »

AndrewThrowaway wrote: post #86
matsemann wrote: post #12

Why are dentists so scammy? In Norway I've seen documentaries about them sending the same people to multiple dentists, and some of them receive wildly different advice. Some of that can be ascribed to some being in the school of pro-active, so they want to fix your teeth at the first glance of issues. But in the end, most of the things being quoted were unnecessary. They all seemed very intent on removing wisdom teet…

My experience: Teeth looks fine and healthy, not much tartar to clean. When was the last time you visited? Two years ago. Oh no you should visit at least twice a year (?). Even if all looks fine x-ray is recommended which can reveal some things. I do the x-ray. All is fine. You don't even have upper wisdom teeth. Lower wisdom teeth are at 90deg so they can pose a risk if they started growing. Yeah, but I am 40 years…

90-degree? Yeah, you should get those wisdom teeth out because general anesthesia at your advanced age would not be good for your longevity. That is, if your wisdom teeth were ever then to surface and rot.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#99

Post by jnsie »

a2tech wrote: post #41
matsemann wrote: post #12

Why are dentists so scammy? In Norway I've seen documentaries about them sending the same people to multiple dentists, and some of them receive wildly different advice. Some of that can be ascribed to some being in the school of pro-active, so they want to fix your teeth at the first glance of issues. But in the end, most of the things being quoted were unnecessary. They all seemed very intent on removing wisdom teet…

Dentists are trying VERY hard to get included under standard medical insurance in the US. If you think they're scammy now, wait until they can start billing your insurance. People with insurance are often divorced from the cost of services rendered so they'll really be able to reap profit then.

The naive part of me wonders if this will improve services. I have good health and dental insurance and while my health insurance becomes really beneficial once I've hit a threshold and met my deductibles, there is a hard upper limit on how will be paid for dental work annually, to the point I've had to spread (non-emergency) care over multiple years to cover the costs.
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