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An update on the campaign to defend serious math education in California
111–120 of 657 posts
Re: An update on the campaign to defend serious math education in California
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
From my understanding, they revisit this framework every 8 years. California is doing poorly in 8th grade math scores, so I think they want to make changes to improve that.
It seems like such a bonehead solution to the problem. Of course if you’re doing poorly in math scores, you can make math easier in the hope to increase scores. It’s sad that the state is proposing these changes. I remember in school there were kids who argued “algebra is stupid, who needs it, why waste time” and there were one or two sympathetic teachers who would respond “well, I rarely have to use algebra to balan…
The person quoted (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo_Boaler) is a "Nomellini-Olivier Professor of Mathematics Education at the Stanford Graduate School of Education" who "won the award for best PhD in education from the British Educational Research Association"
I'm not saying I agree with the proposed California Framework. As a formerly gifted maths student, I hate it. But let's not dismiss the rigorous work of an academic who is attempting to improve education for a public education body for a state with 40 million people as "bonehead" (or "woke nonsense" as another commenter did).
90% of the reasons why kids say " is stupid, who needs it" it's because they are not enjoying it or struggling with it and using this as a defense mechanism. Noone who is doing WELL at a school subject dismisses it as useless.
So maybe, just maybe, it's worth evaluating the education process to make it easier to teach kids to give them the foundations that then the more gifted ones can invest and build on top of, and everyone comes out with baseline math competency.
Re: An update on the campaign to defend serious math education in California
#113Re: An update on the campaign to defend serious math education in California
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think America is going to have to take a hard look at its math education if it’s serious about re-industrializing. Where are all the extra engineers going to come from? I think you are touching on theory I have that Americans are becoming increasingly resentful that technical skills are becoming more necessary for middle class living. This is a huge driver of the pervading sense of precariousness. For some reason t…
These things go in cycles. A lot of people don't realize that Scopes actually lost the Scopes Monkey Trial, and that the tide didn't turn overwhelmingly to rationalism in public education until the 1958 National Defense Education Act (which was motivated by the idea that there was a risk of the nation falling behind scientifically). The tide will turn towards rationalism and rigor again, eventually.
Homer Hickman came to my mind reading your comment. His Sputnik moment catalyzing the journey from coal mining town to NASA is a metaphor for that ideal. However, I’d have a hard time imagining America in 2022 has anything in common with 1959’s West Virginia.
Re: An update on the campaign to defend serious math education in California
#115Sorry for being out of the loop and asking a (possibly) dumb question: What is the stated reason that the CMF suggested these changes? Is it about budgets? Is it because some people might think these classes " aren't that important? ". The open letter seems to suggest that it's about closing gaps between privileged and less privileged - is that it? Honest question - I'm not trying to stir the pot.
I believe the gist of the argument is that when you split students into 'normal' and 'advanced' classes at a young age, the students who are not put into the advanced classes will believe they are just naturally not good at math and will give up on trying to get better because they will think they just "don't have a math brain". Here is a short blurb about the idea: > The framework would not forbid districts from acc…
Why wouldn't you just let everyone take the same class and the same exams, but let the kids who have interest do extra work? Want to do calculus a year early? Here's the book, here's the exercises, why would I stop you?
Re: An update on the campaign to defend serious math education in California
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you want to teach people methods to solve equations, limits, integrals etc. speed with basic algebraic operations is necessary. Facility with those methods is then necessary to be able to adequately follow important proofs and gain understanding of more advanced concepts. I don't know how you would teach people important results in their fields (physics, computer science etc., I'm not talking about actual mathemat…
TL;DR: algebra != arithmetic AKA real math doesn't use numbers I'm only good at _arithmetic_ because of making Warhammer 40k armies (true story bro). I'm good at _algebra_ because I was taught well, on top of a knack. Speed with basic algebraic operations was very helpful in many places but speed with arithmetic operations has only been helpful in board games. I don't think anyone here would disagree with your point…
Performing a bunch of calculations for tabletop wargaming is basically the same as learning multiplication tables and solving related problem sets. It should help every time that for example you have to simplify a polynomial involving fractions and similar operations.
As I stated in another post, I don't know when it is neurologically ideal to learn arithmetics, it seems something that would be important to study carefully (personally I learnt before grade school, when I was 3-4 years old, but I didn't learn to read until I was 6, something that is often taught earlier).
Re: An update on the campaign to defend serious math education in California
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sounds like more woke nonsense. Sounds nice and easy to a layman from a super high level but not practical or put through any kind of rigorous rational thought.
> Sounds like more woke nonsense You are right that this is a lot of nonsense. Specifically, 'you aren't good at math/math is hard' is the nonsense meme that gets hammered into student heads so frequently during school that most of them actually start to believe it. It's not some kind of novel woke nonsense, though, it's how math instruction on this continent has been happening over the past X decades. The wokies are…
Like I said, sounds good to a layman in general terms (just how you explained it). But the actual implementation is half-baked, short-sighted, and favors a weak/easy solution rather than something more well thought out and complex.
Re: An update on the campaign to defend serious math education in California
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you want to teach people methods to solve equations, limits, integrals etc. speed with basic algebraic operations is necessary. Facility with those methods is then necessary to be able to adequately follow important proofs and gain understanding of more advanced concepts. I don't know how you would teach people important results in their fields (physics, computer science etc., I'm not talking about actual mathemat…
TL;DR: algebra != arithmetic AKA real math doesn't use numbers I'm only good at _arithmetic_ because of making Warhammer 40k armies (true story bro). I'm good at _algebra_ because I was taught well, on top of a knack. Speed with basic algebraic operations was very helpful in many places but speed with arithmetic operations has only been helpful in board games. I don't think anyone here would disagree with your point…
Algebra does use numbers. I learned to move the numbers to one side and the variables to the other.
10x+7 = -2x+31
Move 7 to the other side (picking up a minus sign)
10x = -2x + 31 - 7 = -2x + 24
Move -2x to the other side (flipping sign)
12x = 24
Recover 12*2 = 24 via memorization, quick division (though not long division), or whatever method
Therefore, x = 2. Then I drew a square and was done.
Re: An update on the campaign to defend serious math education in California
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
The unstated irony is that there’s a large overlap in the anti-immigration and re-industrialization crowd. I think an interesting part of 20th century American industrial/scientific history is that many of the prominent figures were European immigrants (many Jewish) or children of immigrants. Maybe there is something exceptional about the environment itself. But the talented and privileged native citizens rarely aspi…
> At least in other countries, the upper class ideal is a renaissance man. Sadly, I don't think that is very true in many (most?) places.
Yeah I felt ridiculous saying that. Perhaps that false contrast betrays a romantic idea more than representing any material reality
Re: An update on the campaign to defend serious math education in California
#120SF CA resident, parent of two school age children chiming in. The direction with math seems pretty dismal, in that as of right now, everyone is singly tracked together for math through freshman year of high school. This results in children who have higher aptitudes[1] to not be well served by schools. The majority of people I know who have the means opt out of the public school system, which probably makes the problem worse generally but solves a pain point for them.
[1] - I take it as a fact that different people have different talent levels for different things, but not everyone agrees with that, and disagreement on this point is a big driver (but not the only driver) in the "everyone gets exactly the same" approach that is trending now.