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Ask HN: What happened to Twitter poison pill?

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211–220 of 303 posts

Re: Ask HN: What happened to Twitter poison pill?

#211
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that guideline is meant to cover the words “utter nonsense” it is not intuitive to anyone

I don't see much daylight between "utter nonsense" and "that is idiotic".

I think you are being too harsh on parent.

How is that worse than people literally calling each other's comments bullshit on HN?

Examples: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6805295 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5111959 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6410617 .. and many more

Re: Ask HN: What happened to Twitter poison pill?

#212
post #63

During a hostile takeover, someone buys 51% of the shares. They then elect a board of people who will approve whatever they want. Then they can do things like 'merge' the company with some other company they own at a board-approved value-per-share. That value will be much lower than what they paid per share when buying it on the open market, but not so low that the government gets involved. Eg: Musk buys the shares a…

The poison pill dilutes everyone’s shares. The hostile actor could / would dump their shares after the hostile take over attempt. That would crash the price. Alternatively, the board would keep creating shares as the hostile actor attempted to buy more. Keeping the price the same or higher. Eventually the hostile actor would still take the company but at a much higher initial cost. Once purchased they could still do…

> The poison pill dilutes everyone’s shares.

This is factually incorrect.

The poison pill is specifically designed to dilute the hostile actor's shares, while leaving everyone else mostly untouched (depending on the pill's mechanisms).

> The hostile actor could / would dump their shares after the hostile take over attempt. That would crash the price.

They could, but would they? This would hurt them, too, so it rarely happens. That being said, Musk certainly has enough money and pettiness to lose billions to prove a point, but very few hostile takeover investors have that much money to burn.

> Alternatively, the board would keep creating shares as the hostile actor attempted to buy more. Keeping the price the same or higher.

How would they prevent the market from devaluing the stock as more is printed? This is like govts trying to print more money, it leads to inflation.

> Else they’d open themselves to lawsuits anyway.

If the market thought Twitter had better plans for future profitability, they could be sued for the opposite, going with Musk. They can basically always be sued if enough shareholders think they're not doing a good job.

> He’d dump 10% and instantly the price would be down 40-60%, plus people would lose confidence and drop further.

Putting aside the likelihood hostile takeover investors would waste billions in spite, it seems unlikely that a failed takeover would change the stock price for longer than a news cycle. All the fundamentals are unchanged, so it's more likely the price would return to what it was before.

Re: Ask HN: What happened to Twitter poison pill?

#213
post #97

Nobody knows yet why the board relented, but the scuttlebutt seems to be that Twitter arranged an internal valuation once Musk put a price on the company, presumably as justification for an internal plan that they'd announce as their alternative to acquisition, and the valuation actually showed Musk was overpaying for the income Twitter was likely to generate. (If the board hadn't relented, Musk's next step would hav…

Also on the right a bunch of governors / AG's were rumored to be planning to go after twitter to try and destroy it if they didn't accept Musks bid. If Elon had bailed and started a competing service (with some of his 40B) it's likely the stock would have dropped sharply.

That would have left the board in a very ugly spot, and politically in places like florida doubly so (destroying pension values / turning down a good offer for nothing etc etc)

Re: Ask HN: What happened to Twitter poison pill?

#214
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. How does that look for a random TWTR holder far away from SV? One day his broker just informs him that there are no longer securities on his account, but that account has received some cash? 2. Why is it even allowed (by the government) to decide the share price at the board meeting? These shares don't belong to them, somebody has purchased them already. And these people have decided what the shares are worth, tha…

I had some stock long term in Tiffany. Last year, Tiffany was bought by some outfit, and I received cash for the stock. I found out about it by looking at the statement and wondering where that cash came from :-/ I have some TWTR, and I expect the same thing will happen.

Similar thing happened to me when AMD acquired Xilinx. I got AMD stock and some cash. These types of transactions are usually automated, by an entity like DTCC I would guess.

Re: Ask HN: What happened to Twitter poison pill?

#215
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If anybody makes them sell at any price that's less than what they want — it's a robbery. No, this incorrect. Pending a shareholder vote, the board of a company can force you to accept an amount they determine to revoke the validity of your shares. If the value per share (which they decide) of a specific class of shares is not so low as to illicit concern from regulators then it's all above board.

It seems you don't understand the question. I understand that the board can decide value per share. Basically everyone in this thread said this at least once, which is unnecessary, since that's basically what was stated in the root post, and that's why I asked the question in the first place! The question is how this is supposed to be fair. Because, once again, if you make me to sell my property for anything less tha…

Buyers are often only interested in buying 100% of a company. If an all or none bid comes in, either the people who want to accept or the people who want to reject are going to be unhappy. When setting up a company you have to plan how to deal with this possibility in advance, without knowing the specifics of any offer. Most large public companies come to the conclusion that letting the majority decide is the fairest thing to do, and most shareholders know that's how it works when they are buying the shares.

Re: Ask HN: What happened to Twitter poison pill?

#216
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The board negotiated a deal with Elon after putting the poison pill into effect. There was no "negotiation" with the board. Elon just made an unsolicited offer and said take it or leave it. The board "left it" and yet here we are. > If Elon had made a deal directly with the stockholders, that would have triggered the poison pill. What? That's not how poison pills work. Poison pills exist to prevent hostile takeover…

I know it's a big ask, but it would be kind of nice if HN added a flag context situation so one could flag a comment as "has literally no idea about how corporations work" rather than just a generic flag.

Um, I'm afraid you might be the one getting flagged :)

Shareholder pressure, which was rumored to include governors and ag's in states with pension investments in twitter who don't like twitter, was out there.

They risked a decline of twitter's stock price if Elon withdrew his offer AND sold his (largish) block of shares AND announced a competing service with some of his billions.

Twitter has its HQ in SF, but that doesn't mean it can blow florida pension money because they don't like musk.

So yes, the board, taking into consideration shareholders and their duty there, may have been in a tough spot. It certainly doesn't seem like they got any increase in price.

Re: Ask HN: What happened to Twitter poison pill?

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as someone with limited understanding of how corporations work, i had a hard time understanding who was factually correct in the exchange.

So, as a rough, the board determines what happens, and the shareholders can notionally replace the board. The board _can_ listen to the shareholders, but are by no means obligated to and in the case of Twitter in particular, the board elections happen on a staggered rotating basis so even a majority shareholder could not immediately replace enough of the board to obtain a majority.

This is totally false. The board owes a fiduciary duty to shareholders. It is almost certain that if they imploded the deal for political reasons that places like florida would have sued.

You really don't know how this works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98EzC_1GvGE

There have been tons of cases about this, where boards ignore rights of shareholders or those with minority interests.

Re: Ask HN: What happened to Twitter poison pill?

#218
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s an alternative explanation to why the board did what they did: Musk has played fast and loose with “I have the funding for this deal” and “I am correctly disclosing my share purchases” in the past. The poison pill was a way to get him to slow down and talk to the board and get his lawyers to sit down with their lawyers and make sure this wasn’t going to be another “I’m taking Tesla private” moment. (not sayin…

Sure, I'm not unbiased here and am framing this in the way least favorable to Musk --- that if a board is going to accept a first (=chuckle= no, "final") offer from a bidder, it's because the price is more than the board thinks the company is worth. But it's also true that they may have done that calculation quickly, and that really they were just making sure this wasn't an elaborate joke. Part of my analysis is base…

Musk probably had to overpay, otherwise they wouldn't want to sell it.

Re: Ask HN: What happened to Twitter poison pill?

#219
post #156

Deals like this are all about leverage. Who has the power? The poison pill would force Musk to be a "good actor" in the negotiations. You want negotiations like this to be friendly and not become a hostile takeover.

Ummm. I think Elon had the leverage I'm afraid.

He had DeSantis in florida threatening twitter as well.

Twitter didn't get him to budge on price (unusual actually in these deals).

Elon had other options other than being a "good actor". He did a take it or leave it deal. They took it, through gritted teeth it sounds like. I don't think the negotiations were "friendly".

Re: Ask HN: What happened to Twitter poison pill?

#220
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, that's a bit more of an explanation to what I was wondering about than most of the other answers.

You're welcome. Corporate governance is a surprisingly controversial area for how boring it seems at first glance. Here's a more in depth apologetic for the interested: https://theliptonarchive.org/1980s/

Corporate governance looks absolutely exciting at first glance, because so much of our lives are determined by it. (We spend a lot more time buying products than we do voting for politicians or filing taxes, same with spending money.)
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