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Workers Are Winning the Return-to-Office War Because They’re Right

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Re: Workers Are Winning the Return-to-Office War Because They’re Right

#21

Post by jleyank »

dont__panic wrote: post #11
philistine wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in an office with a door. My return to work was bittersweet, but manageable.

Most people don't even have that at home! I suspect if everyone had an office at work for "deep work," the commute would be easier to swallow. I, for one, could save some money on rent by moving to a place with one fewer bedroom.

I think that's people's point - if you give me a better work environment than I have at home, you have an argument for me commuting. However, if it's worse or no batter...

Re: Workers Are Winning the Return-to-Office War Because They’re Right

#24

Post by bberenberg »

jleyank wrote: post #6

Why is it so hard for businesses or people to understand why people aren't that interested in returning to open-offices or other "modern" ways of warehousing workers? If they all had 1-2 person offices w/door, where knowledge workers could have the quiet and uninterrupted time to work, then you'd probably get some return. If, however, you're asking people to return to mayhem, where they have to use blinders and noise…

Because managers are seeing this regularly https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31154119

Re: Workers Are Winning the Return-to-Office War Because They’re Right

#25

Post by IshKebab »

zcdziura wrote: post #15
gentleman11 wrote: post #7

The news has said a lot of things like this recently and been inaccurate. The “great resignation” somehow is happening at the same time as record-low unemployment for example, where quitting rates go up by only 1%. I don’t trust them any more to report factually about employment trends

That's because people have been resigning from their old jobs and switching to different ones.

Wikipedia has a graph of actual resignation rates for the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Resignation

They are... slightly higher than normal. "Great" is clearly an exaggeration.

I agree with gentleman11. The news often clings on to and exaggerates ideas that sound interesting and reasonable but aren't actually happening to any notable degree.

Re: Workers Are Winning the Return-to-Office War Because They’re Right

#26

Post by fortyseven »

bberenberg wrote: post #24
jleyank wrote: post #6

Why is it so hard for businesses or people to understand why people aren't that interested in returning to open-offices or other "modern" ways of warehousing workers? If they all had 1-2 person offices w/door, where knowledge workers could have the quiet and uninterrupted time to work, then you'd probably get some return. If, however, you're asking people to return to mayhem, where they have to use blinders and noise…

Because managers are seeing this regularly https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31154119

Because nobody's had to work multiple jobs before in meat-space? It's just about power and control.

Re: Workers Are Winning the Return-to-Office War Because They’re Right

#27

Post by bberenberg »

fortyseven wrote: post #26
bberenberg wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because managers are seeing this regularly https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31154119

Because nobody's had to work multiple jobs before in meat-space? It's just about power and control.

Most people aren't actively violating a contract in meat space. This isn't about people doing 2 real jobs. This is about people doing 0.25x at 2+ jobs. They are lying and screwing over team members who have to pick up the slack and deal with their BS.

They're not fighting the man, they're the person who shows up on the last day of class and slaps their name on the group project. These aren't a new class of individual arising from the pandemic or remote work, it's a situation which is emboldening pre-existing bad behavior.

Firing is a pain in most orgs. Telling other employers that this employee behaved like this is illegal, so they keep doing this in more places. It's plain old theft and disrespect for team members.

Re: Workers Are Winning the Return-to-Office War Because They’re Right

#28

Post by WorldMaker »

revlolz wrote: post #17
gentleman11 wrote: post #7

The news has said a lot of things like this recently and been inaccurate. The “great resignation” somehow is happening at the same time as record-low unemployment for example, where quitting rates go up by only 1%. I don’t trust them any more to report factually about employment trends

I would argue it was a great migration over resignation. Vast majority of people aren't quitting the workforce, they are obtaining promotions and raises. People being told they weren't good enough for x, did not do enough to earn y, that the company has never supported remote work; all got to see their management's lie. They are more than qualified for x, they can earn 15% above y, and the entire company is doing jus…

I think it was a massive migration at the "low end" too: fast food places complaining about lack of workers today are at least in part because the workers they laid off early in the pandemic [1] did exactly what you would expect them to do to survive and migrated en mass into "gig economy" jobs that relatively exploded at the same time like Postmates/DoorDash/etc. In some cases those were "raises" too.

[1] The other "big lie" about calling it the "great resignation": there were plenty of layoffs that happened (and didn't need to) and burnt employee good will for short term stock concerns.

Re: Workers Are Winning the Return-to-Office War Because They’re Right

#29

Post by fartcannon »

bberenberg wrote: post #27
fortyseven wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because nobody's had to work multiple jobs before in meat-space? It's just about power and control.

Most people aren't actively violating a contract in meat space. This isn't about people doing 2 real jobs. This is about people doing 0.25x at 2+ jobs. They are lying and screwing over team members who have to pick up the slack and deal with their BS. They're not fighting the man, they're the person who shows up on the last day of class and slaps their name on the group project. These aren't a new class of individual…

OK so fire that one person and let everyone else WFH? Your work force is not a single antagonistic entity that must be punished when 'it' misbehaves.

Re: Workers Are Winning the Return-to-Office War Because They’re Right

#30

Post by DGCA »

bberenberg wrote: post #27
fortyseven wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because nobody's had to work multiple jobs before in meat-space? It's just about power and control.

Most people aren't actively violating a contract in meat space. This isn't about people doing 2 real jobs. This is about people doing 0.25x at 2+ jobs. They are lying and screwing over team members who have to pick up the slack and deal with their BS. They're not fighting the man, they're the person who shows up on the last day of class and slaps their name on the group project. These aren't a new class of individual…

I’d rather subsidize a handful of slackers than return to the office.
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