Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am not certain if you saw the edit I added to my previous comment (I added it reasonably immediately, but you also responded within 10 minutes, so maybe you missed it), but I believe it addresses some of these points; I will restate, however, more directly targeting this post, just in case. Google doesn't seem to try to make things sustainably, and in this case didn't even try their bread-and-butter business model…
I enjoyed reading your back and forth in this thread. I can see both of your points and don't really know what side of the fence I land on my self but I would like to jump in with one observation you might find poignant. To carry on with your climate analogy... My economics professor used to talk about "the destructive winds of innovation or invention". I think this might be a perfect example of this. Markets are a m…
Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search
141–148 of 148 posts
Re: Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am not certain if you saw the edit I added to my previous comment (I added it reasonably immediately, but you also responded within 10 minutes, so maybe you missed it), but I believe it addresses some of these points; I will restate, however, more directly targeting this post, just in case. Google doesn't seem to try to make things sustainably, and in this case didn't even try their bread-and-butter business model…
Wow, that's actually a very interesting position, and very interesting metaphor. I'll have to think about it before I can really react, though. Unrelatedly, this thread has been an absolute pleasure. Thanks for not dismissing me for the Google fanboy that I am. Also, it's kind of awesome to be conversing with you on HN. I've used your jailbreaks and software on iPod Touches before I moved to Android, and I think it's…
After the iPhone came out, I got involved with the G1 for a while. I made a few code contributions to Android; however, most of my patches, even with one of them being a possible security issue, took six months to get into AOSP... it wasn't a really open process. By the time they got back to me I had forgotten what I had learned about the things I was fixing, and never really looked back on the idea of contributing more.
Additionally, the G1 wasn't actually an open hardware platform: we had to hack it. Someone figured out the "telnetd is installed and the keyboard is attached to an open root console" trick, but then the "real work" started getting a bootloader exploit; it was on a mailing list I ran (g1-hackers) where the bootloader was first dumped (possibly even on my phone, actually, although I did not do the hard part: I just did the labor; I feel like the guy who did it was named Edward).
The "open" Android device, the ADP1, was expensive (you couldn't get it subsidized, only unlocked), and frankly: it was a G1... the G1 was not a good phone. If you had an iPhone, especially one you already had root access on, the Android devices at the time simply were not interesting.
Since then, Android has become more open in some ways (more pieces of hardware from better manufacturers allowing you to unlock the bootloader), while more closed in others (the source code becoming more and more locked down: right now 3.x is still a closed branch; even when it opens, Google has promised longer delays between releases to AOSP).
Meanwhile, Android's quality has continued to trail the iPhone: despite sometimes even having a faster CPU, the fact that it has a low quality JIT backing the entire system causes the experience of the phone to be "slow"; worse, it is incredibly laggy due to the high latency IPC that is used to interface rendering things in Java to the incoming touch events... until 3.x it didn't even have hardware accelerated UI compositing.
In comparison, despite being "closed", thanks to the work of people working on jailbreaks, I have always had a playground where "the phone is mine"; and, thanks to the work that I do with MobileSubstrate and Cycript, I've never actually felt that limited by the fact that the source is closed, as I go to make modifications to things: I just do it anyway; frankly, Objective-C ARM binaries are very easy to read ;P.
In fact, while looking at Android, I feel like the key problem with the people who work on hacking the ecosystem is that they have become reliant on the source code being available, which has not only led to work slamming to a halt while 3.x is behind closed doors, but also has meant a poor experience for users: people have to install entire replacement ROMs (compiled from AOSP), rather than just installing the specific modifications they want (as people do from Cydia).
Finally, we can look at "what hardware would I use if I could install either operating system on the device", and the answer right now would be the iPhone 4S, and even without that device (as I have no jailbreak for it currently), the answer would be the iPhone 4: the reason is, primarily, the high resolution and high quality screen.
It is for this reason that I am anxiously awaiting the Nexus Prime, which I have heard will actually have a reasonable screen: supposedly, it will be 1080p, which is even a higher resolution than that on the iPhone 4 (but watch the entire device be ludicrously larger). Unfortunately, (for what I think was probably a good reason,) its launch has been delayed for a bit; we will soon see.
It will also, supposedly, not be Pentile, which makes the Nexus S that I carry around with me even worse than the Droid I had previously. However, I hear that it will still be AMOLED, which has a really really bad problem with burn-in (on my Nexus S, just a few hours at the lock screen is enough to have a noticeable shadowing where the unlock slider is; even for normal users, the status bar is up constantly).
So, I guess those are my reasons: 1) history (iPhone was the first to market), 2) equality (frankly, these devices are all closed), 3) quality (the iPhone hardware and software continues to be hands down the best). That said, I am doing a lot more on Android recently, as its devices and operating system have started to become reasonable, but certainly not because I consider Android to be "open".
And with that, I will leave you with a failing command (and yes, I realize that kernel.org was hacked, but Android didn't even care about finding a replacement), straight from the Android lead himself. (Note: this definition doesn't even capture the key "make install" step that Android devices are hit and miss at; and don't even get me started about how the result isn't even a complete system.)
@Arubin: the definition of open: "mkdir android ; cd android ; repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git ; repo sync ; make"
Re: Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search
#143So, in 2005 I was involved in a company that thought "man, it would be great to build a search engine for source code". I even started putting together components for it, such as a model for finding text inside of larger documents that had statistical properties similar to code, auto-detecting the language, so you could find code snippets inside of blog posts. However, by the time we got organized enough to actually…
Your timeline here seems a bit off. Google Code Search didn't launch until mid-October 2006.
That said, I was specific to note a gap between 2005 (when my friends at Okori, Brian Fox in specific: notable as he was the first employee of the FSF, developing bash, readline, gdbserver, and texinfo), and "the time we got organized enough to actually do it" (when Okori actually existed as a company that could allocate resources to building something like that); I therefore feel it is even more unreasonable to be bothering about something I don't remember a specific date of anyway (it isn't like I marked it in my calendar).
Re: Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think in the beginning MS wanted to win, but I think eventually they got to the point where they got in to markets just to establish some market presence, letting competitors know that they were interested in playing in that space, and preventing others from making too much headway in that space. I don't think Google's forays in to myriad markets is necessarily motivated by any real interest in being in specific ma…
"I suspect though that if they had even a fraction of the paying customers MS did for any even minor MS product, that they'd end up with a long sunset period as well." I'm sorry, I must have been unclear: it has been my experience that MS /does/ pull the plug swiftly and unambiguously when they do intend to give up; they "double down or shut it down", as I tried to describe in my post. It is Google that I find tends…
Re: Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search
#145Re: Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search
#146I may be biased, but: I feel like Google's "geek cred" is slipping. It feels like PMs (and their "monetization strategies") are gaining control over at El Goog, shutting down anything that isn't "revenue positive". You can't measure geek cred. You can't measure the second-order effect of services like Code Search. So the slow slide of Google turning into "just another tech company" starts...
I hope the lack of monetization is not their only reason for killing Code Search.
Re: Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
Double quotes seem to stop it from tokenizing, e.g. "pthread_t".
Yes, but in a code search engine it would make sense to not break words that are valid symbols in more programming languages than not. It's all about sensible defaults.
Ruby Class#method, the (dozens or more) symbolic "operators" in scala, haskell, ocaml (which are generally functions, not operators).
I think it's up to each language community to build those tools now.
Re: Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search
#148If Google can't backup the resources required for Code-Search, then who will ? Just googled to see if any other code search service is available. It listed one more result other than the Google Code Search. Will koders.com remain alive. It will probably be a single. Lets hope, there will be someone backing up Koders.