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Gen Z does not dream of labor

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Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#331

Post by Gigachad »

blahblarblar wrote: post #177
madaxe_again wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the thing. I know this sounds glib, but the barrier to entry is so low ($20 5th hand laptop will do just fine to do first-steps development), I can’t understand why the market isn’t flooded with coders. So many people say “oh I could never do what you do”, and I’m like “I’m a shaved ape who wanted to play computer games and accidentally ended up learning stuff, you absolutely can”. Then they just go on saying…

Try volunteering to teach some college courses on an entry level technical subject. It'll help develop some empathy for why not everyone can code. For me it was physics. I was optimistic. I thought I could teach anyone physics. After investing many hours in some of the lower ranking students I realized my mistake. Not everyone has the kind of process oriented thought processes needed to think about math or coding. No…

Given the right teaching materials, it seems like almost anyone can learn programming. But the difficulty lies in motivation and discipline.

It’s like saying “I don’t understand why not everyone is fit, all you need is to eat less and go walk outside for free”.

I have taught a few people programming and almost everyone started picking up the basics and moving along well but some would just completely give up once no one was prodding them. This usually correlates with other things like health and general life situation. Some people just aren’t motivated to get up, go run, eat healthy, and learn a valuable skill.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#332

Post by Gigachad »

Arcanum-XIII wrote: post #187
madaxe_again wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the thing. I know this sounds glib, but the barrier to entry is so low ($20 5th hand laptop will do just fine to do first-steps development), I can’t understand why the market isn’t flooded with coders. So many people say “oh I could never do what you do”, and I’m like “I’m a shaved ape who wanted to play computer games and accidentally ended up learning stuff, you absolutely can”. Then they just go on saying…

To add to the other answers, it's also because most persons are bad at coding. They do understand the basic of an if/else/loop but can't create any kind of process with them.

No one starts our understanding it. I remember I spent at least a year reading Java books and tutorials without understanding it at all until I eventually stumbled on some content that was simpler and ground through the learning process.

If you are motivated and have the right material to learn from, you can do basically anything. This seems pretty true for me. I haven’t found any skill I can’t just grind through learning if I put the time in.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#333

Post by [deleted] »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #25

> “I don’t have goals. I don’t have ambition. I only want to be attractive.” This apathetic declaration is the start of a TikTok rant that went viral for its blatant message: to reject hard work and indulge in leisure. It’s weird to see these opinions presented as a new phenomenon. Wanting to avoid work and indulge in leisure is a tale as old as time. It’s even a common theme among characters in ancient writings. Wha…

[deleted]

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#334

Post by Gigachad »

bombcar wrote: post #223
paulpauper wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some people on Tiktok making good money with product placement, same for YouTube. Starbucks however is dead-end.

I wonder how many people spend significant amount of their early working life doing low-wage jobs whilst trying to "make it big" as an influencer. And I wonder what percentage of Starbucks managers started out as Starbucks wage-slaves.

The YouTuber / professional gamer scene is hyper competitive these days. I know someone who has spent the last 5 years trying to make it on YouTube and has not really made any progress.

I believe store managers do tend to come from on the floor staff but there is likely no path from store manager to Starbucks corporate.

Programming is almost uniquely privileged where you end up interacting with higher up corporate positions frequently and you will pretty easily be able to learn their jobs and jump over if you want.

While retail workers don’t see at all what goes on in an office separate to them. They just get instructions dictated down.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#335

Post by s1artibartfast »

skulk wrote: post #311
s1artibartfast wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of confirmation bias in these stories. Half the issue is that people have been indoctrinated to expect home ownership and long for some golden age seen on TV that never existed. Home ownership was never universal in the US. It has been within a few percent of 65% since the 1960s[1]. It was always out of reach for the lowest earners, like those that make minimum wage. Some people whos parents owned hous…

> people have been indoctrinated to expect home ownership Expecting to own the building and land on which you live and from which you contribute to society is a product of indoctrination? That makes sense if you're completely against land-ownership (which is, on the surface, a reasonable idea), but surely accepting the only current alternative (paying rent) is the product of an even more sinister form of indoctrinati…

Maybe indoctrination isn't the best word for it, but people came to expect something from their lives that has never been true for any generation in this country in the past. I'm for homeownership, but that doesn't mean the expectation is based in reality. People grew up on media that had a distorted picture of life that was never true or a broad swath of the population

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#336

Post by JaimeThompson »

syshum wrote: post #326
JaimeThompson wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it is easy to be a victim When you are one major accident or illness away from losing everything you have saved is kind of makes sense to blame those who have fought so hard to make sure typical people don't have access to effective health care at a reasonable cost.

illness or injury yes, as that would prevent me from working, and earning the money I do today Medical costs however would not the cause of my problems as even in the worst case I would be protected by bankruptcy laws would would allow me to discharge my medical debt while keeping my primary home, and a significant chunk of my personal possessions.

Not if you are injured or dead because you couldn't afford the medical care necessary to fix you / cure you / treat you on an on going basis.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#337

Post by yucky »

burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

>People are willing to save and/or hustle for 5-10 years to get material rewards, but beyond that it feels pointless.

Let's test that theory. So assuming that person in their 20's doesn't want to move to the Bay Area/Seattle/Austin/NYC they can find a nice house in a metro area within a 20-30 minute drive of plenty of medium-high paying jobs, for around $200k.

So assuming they're smart enough to put 20% down on that house, they need to save around $40k. In your 5-10 year time frame that means they need to save $4-$8k per year.

So I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the generation dropping $1,200 on iPhones and having an average of 50 games in their Steam account can probably save like $5k per year if they really try.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#338

Post by Amezarak »

smileysteve wrote: post #267
gruez wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are whole categories of jobs that are exempt from minimum wage I'm presuming you're talking about tipped jobs? It seems reasonable to presume that they earn close to minimum wage when factoring in tips, otherwise people would switch to non-exempt jobs.

> otherwise people would switch to non-exempt jobs. But we're seeing this in the US, between covid restaurant layoffs and closures; Tipped dining service is struggling to recruit.

Tipped employees are required to be paid minimum wage if their tips don’t equal 7.25/hr. Their employer is federally mandated to make up the difference.

Having said that, most tipped employees are doing much, much better…which is why they aren’t clamoring to go wash dishes in the back.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#339

Post by teakettle42 »

UncleMeat wrote: post #330
teakettle42 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life isn’t easy. Sometimes you have to make hard choices. What’s your point?

It is still reasonable to call it a broken system even if "move to Idaho" is an option.

It’s not broken just because it fails to deliver a luxury you want, when and where you want it, for the price you want to pay.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#340

Post by bombcar »

Gigachad wrote: post #334
bombcar wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many people spend significant amount of their early working life doing low-wage jobs whilst trying to "make it big" as an influencer. And I wonder what percentage of Starbucks managers started out as Starbucks wage-slaves.

The YouTuber / professional gamer scene is hyper competitive these days. I know someone who has spent the last 5 years trying to make it on YouTube and has not really made any progress. I believe store managers do tend to come from on the floor staff but there is likely no path from store manager to Starbucks corporate. Programming is almost uniquely privileged where you end up interacting with higher up corporate po…

YouTube personality/gamer star is this generation’s Hollywood. People used to move to LA and work jobs whilst trying to get a break into the industry — and of course very very few ever succeeded.
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