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No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#831

Post by vinay427 »

refurb wrote: post #193
nottorp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US thinkers have no idea what a social safety net is so they draw their conclusions without taking that option into account.

It’s also fun seeing US thinkers explain what life is like in Europe but clearly never lived there and are actually wrong about a lot of it.

I don’t find it fun. It’s about as fun as seeing “European thinkers” do the same about the US, as someone who has lived in both regions, although one direction is perhaps more vocal than the other. Whether it’s a positive or negative misconception, I find it more frustrating than amusing when one’s confidence is mismatched with the quality or reliability of information (i.e. ignorance).

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#832

Post by zmgsabst »

dijit wrote: post #814
zmgsabst wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> domestic violence was in the realm of “basically normal”, I’d guesstimate 20% of households had an abusive person Can you cite this — or is it a made up fact to support your pre-existing beliefs?

It’s a guesstimate. As stated. The normalisation of domestic violence 30-50 years ago is going to be hard to find statistically, as things like that are not going to be in crime statistics, obviously. Everything I said was anecdotal, from the midlands in England- but it matches other experiences from southern Scotland and East Coast US. I guesstimate 20% because it “felt” like 1 in 5 families had someone abusive in t…

Okay — but that’s just you making up facts.

The only cited number is 1.3%… and entire order of magnitude lower, and it’s since dropped to 0.5%. That is, the only documented instances are an entire order of magnitude lower.

I think you “guesstimated” a fake number to pretend your personal views are more objective than they actually are.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#833

Post by zmgsabst »

trevorboaconstr wrote: post #820
zmgsabst wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> domestic violence was in the realm of “basically normal”, I’d guesstimate 20% of households had an abusive person Can you cite this — or is it a made up fact to support your pre-existing beliefs?

I was unable to find extended statistics, but DMV rates over the past 3 decades seem to have fallen dramatically. During the 1950s there were no laws to protect battered women and assaults on women were not considered as a crime. Even in 1960 New York domestic violence cases are transferred from criminal court to civil court, where only civil procedures apply. The husband never faces as harsh penalties as he would su…

Sure — but if we double the other direction (from 1990 to 1960), we get 27 victimizations per 1000 or 2.7%.

That would be an order of magnitude below the “guesstimate” — and why I asked.

While something may feel common, it might nevertheless not be as high as 20%.

It’s okay to admit it felt common without making up statistics — and just say that we don’t have good information.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#834

Post by softcactus »

BurningFrog wrote: post #664
softcactus wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what most people mean when they say "defund". The problem is that America has an issue with being reactive instead of proactive. Instead of treating drugs and crime as an economics issue and getting ahead of it with social policies, we react to it after the fact and criminalize everything and pay for a standing army with zero accountability. Creating an arms race between gangs and police, with the average citi…

At least it's clear what Republicans mean by "Defund Planned Parenthood". If you have to keep explaining "when I say X, I really mean Y", you should maybe stop saying X.

"Reallocate Police Budgets" doesn't have the same staying power.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#835

Post by supersync »

jcstk wrote: post #132

I can appreciate this perspective because I used to have it. I even wrote a similar blog post 10 years ago - it was on the top of HN and the comment section was a beautiful shitshow. For me, this perspective was a good story to tell myself - it justified why I was only investing my time in “work”, and validated me for having “come so far”. Over time, I have reflected and shifted this perspective. That reflection cent…

Well said.

The glaring piece missing from this analysis is the psychology of the young men themselves.

Raising two young men myself, I’m blown away by how powerful cultivating intrinsic motivation is. My eldest just went from constant gaming/sleeping/hiding in his room to working a full-time job, launching a side hustle, and enrolling in classes.

Yes, my modeling & encouragement mattered. But the fulcrum was him accepting that living up to other people’s expectation in high school had left him tired, depressed, and lost.

The author has clearly identified that young man lack a goal worthy of their efforts.

He’s just completely ignored intrinsic motivation and the power of cultivating it.

I don’t think that’s an accident. I think our entire approach to young men as a society ignores the fundamental power of their interests.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#836

Post by gilmore606 »

sanderjd wrote: post #609
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find his overall argument that it is "trickle down values" that are responsible for many of the overall social ills of the poor extremely lacking in evidence, and if anything I think he's confused cause and effect.

Totally agree. I don't understand what the mechanism of values "trickling down" is meant to be. In my experience, none of the people "downstream" care or are even at all aware of what the "upstream" elites think. Like, is the claim really that the deadbeat dad in his 30s mentioned in the OP got his values from an academic seminar on family formation? It's incoherent...

The people downstream watch hours of TV shows and internet media every day, most of which is created by people with elite-aspirational values. They also receive the clear message that these values are elite values. This is how values trickle down.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#837

Post by purplerabbit »

camgunz wrote: post #375
rayiner wrote: post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

I think the post fails to make the case that male behavior (or the culture that induces male behavior) is the root cause of divorce rates. - The rise in imprisonment is basically entirely a result of the War on Drugs, aka carceral slavery. - The problems with employment are that unions have disappeared, jobs are hyperexploitative (a better measure than the unemployment rate here is the Social Security Disability rate…

> The rise in imprisonment is basically entirely a result of the War on Drugs, aka carceral slavery.

Pretty sure this is false, unless I’m really out of touch with the statistics

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#838

Post by skyde »

supersync wrote: post #835
jcstk wrote: post #132

I can appreciate this perspective because I used to have it. I even wrote a similar blog post 10 years ago - it was on the top of HN and the comment section was a beautiful shitshow. For me, this perspective was a good story to tell myself - it justified why I was only investing my time in “work”, and validated me for having “come so far”. Over time, I have reflected and shifted this perspective. That reflection cent…

Well said. The glaring piece missing from this analysis is the psychology of the young men themselves. Raising two young men myself, I’m blown away by how powerful cultivating intrinsic motivation is. My eldest just went from constant gaming/sleeping/hiding in his room to working a full-time job, launching a side hustle, and enrolling in classes. Yes, my modeling & encouragement mattered. But the fulcrum was him acce…

father of a 4 years old boy. please help me! How do you cultivate intrinsic motivation ? any good strategy or book?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#839

Post by hackerfromthefu »

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #710

So let's just blame men for everything? True, historically men have been expected to bring home the bacon, protect their families from violence and disrespect and discipline sons who may otherwise get in trouble, and that is missing nowadays. But women ALSO had responsibilities - making home pleasant even on modest means, well behaved children that are a pleasure to come home to after a long day of work, encouraging…

And let's not forget that men used to be respected, for being men and doing those things. These days it seems the zeitgeist is they get nagged and complained at, and little wonder they aren't vested.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#840

Post by ensan »

ss108 wrote: post #591
ensan wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the stupidity and moral ineptitude of lower-class people who avowedly hate elites" I have never encountered an individual who claims to hate the "elite". And I for one will not complain if someone hates a person who holds your classist views. And what do you mean by "elite" anyways? If people dislike those in the position of authority, especially politicians, they generally have very good reasons for that. To quote…

"I have never encountered an individual who claims to hate the 'elite'" I don't know what to tell you there. Go talk to more individuals? Go read some right-wing propaganda (e.g. almost anything that comes out Josh Hawley's mouth, or certain off-bench remarks from Justices Alito and Thomas--and yes, all of these individuals are also "elite", but because their views are in the minority among elites, they can't like th…

As you said, Hawley (Stanford and Yale alumni), JD Vance (Yale alumni), even Trump (from a wealthy family and Penn alumni) are all political elites but also quite popular with the right-wingers. So it's not really about hating the elite, unless by the elite you means a specific subset of Democrat politicians and activists.

How many people would object to being operated on by a prominent Harvard surgeon because that person is part of the elite? How many would oppose their children attending an Ivy League or a selective and private university on the ground of being an elite institution? Do people hate engineering professors at MIT because they're elite or do they actually respect them because of their expertise?

"oh yeah they're all corrupt"

To be clear, I believe that the Harvard and Yale alumni and the other political elites who planned & supported the many coups of the 20th century, started the Iraq war (Bush admin), bombed Libya (Obama) into poverty, etc. are all corrupt and deserve our contempt. It does not have anything to do with corruption scandals either because it's a structural problem where politicians have to cozy up to the defense and oil industries among others to advance their careers and get paid.

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