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Gen Z does not dream of labor

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281–290 of 510 posts

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#281
post #88
post #59

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I’m a millennial and I feel the same way, but I think a lot of this is due to a privileged position we have in the labor force. It’s the whitest of white color jobs. We’re still exploited as any trade, but it’s easier to be an architect or a lawyer than it is to be a construction worker. Especially over time and with contradictions sharpening as they are.

High-skill tradespeople often make more than architects. Not at the star level, of course, but architecture is generally a poorly-paying field for the amount of schooling and intellect it requires.

True yeah. I was just thinking of other sorts of “high qualification” high paid trades which require lots of investment to create.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#282
post #273

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From Kaiser's 2020 survey on healthcare plans, the average worker contribution for HMO/PPO plans for a family was $5000-6000/yr [1]. These are not high deductible plans (those are specifically broken out) so they're going to be pretty good insurance, especially PPO. So $400/mo is only underestimating the true cost by about $100/mo. You can't use ACA marketplace prices to judge what your average worker is paying. > sp…

> cost of child care in California, which has _the_ highest cost of labor in the US, is $956/mo The link you provided says $1,412. And this shows roughly $2500 in LA County and $3300 in SF County. https://insightcced.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/INSIGHT_C...

Did you bother to look at it? Or read my post?

> The average annual cost of infant care in California is $16,945—that’s $1,412 per month. Child care for a 4-year-old costs $11,475, or $956 each month.

$1400 for an infant, $950 for a 4 year old. And that's in _the_ highest cost of living state in the country. If you put Michigan it drops to $905/741.

> And this shows roughly $2500 in LA County and $3300 in SF County

Your link comes off as incredibly biased. In literally the second sentence it says "Black and brown people and women of color experienced profound losses of health, community, income, and business at rates far more severe than white households" There's a clear ultra-left political lean to it.

I also literally said that SF/LA/NYC are not representative of costs in the rest of the country. If you're a plumber in SF you make over 6 figures, easily. A plumber makes $80k in a random Midwest city, not in SF/LA. The state of California reported median plumbers in the East Bay made $115k in 2021 [1]. You are fundamentally trying to mislead by using Midwest wages and San Francisco costs. Not to mention that the inflated cost of living is caused by a housing shortage which subsidizing healthcare and childcare doesn't fix.

[1]: https://www.labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/OccGuides/Summary.asp...

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#283
post #219

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I still live there, a suburb of Portland OR. I locked in a cheap apartment years ago that's now rent controlled, which makes my situation possible. I currently pay about half what new renters pay. Without it, I'd be stuck in wage-slavery anyways and couldn't take the time to self-improve like this. Moving is an option (my partner has restrictions: No states with anti-abortion laws, which removes many inexpensive plac…

That is an oddly-specific restriction your partner is demanding.

Seems very reasonable to want women to have access to healthcare they might need in worst case scenarios. I would even throw in requirements of parental leave, amongst other basic protections. Assisted suicide comes to mind too.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#284

As an immigrant, no matter how many times the story about problems of work and wealth inequality and similar theme being brought up, I could never sympathize with it. I think I was raised in the time and place where working just doesn't ever get the luxuries of life. For example, working as a plumber and can afford 2 1/2 kids, a house and a car, that is always impossible. At least in my country. I think America is an…

Yeah, white American boomers had the easiest economic opportunity in human history for the reasons you stated. That time is now over. Millenials/Gen Z are jealous they never had the opportunity. Boomers and younger people who have been indoctrinated can't comprehend why the vast majority are struggling. The post war capitalist system they enjoyed was a temporary anomaly. It isn't compatible with modern life, yet the…

I'm glad that you shared my view. I did come up with this shower thought myself so I always wonder whether I missed something crucial.

I am currently reading this, https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-inequality-ine...

It is interesting to see that even inequality is the default outcome, the natural order of things, even when we start from equality. It seem the law of physics and the law of this world converges toward inequality.

The only way to fight against inequality aggressively is to do the unnatural things, that is, to redistribute wealth aggressively. I'm not saying that doing unnatural things are bad since humans have been doing unnatural things to ease living, but I wonder what would be the side effect or unintended consequences of aggressive wealth redistribution.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#285
post #262
post #206

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>>re buried under student loans, and can't save enough for retirement. we have almost 3 years of deferment now for student loan debt, if they have not been able to improve their situations in that time this speaks more to financial ignorance than it does not being able to afford things. I wonder how many of your friends know what a 50/30/20 budget is? Do they actually track all of their expenses properly, etc.

One thing of note for my cohort is that those around my age (34) graduated either into or around the Great Recession. When we started school, it was all 'do what you love/any degree will do' and that changed while we were in school, so we are kind of a fucked micro-generation. Also of note is that I have a professional graduate degree, as do many of my colleagues, which tends to have higher student debt. While we've…

In the 2008-2010 recession I lost everything, I had no money, no home, no nothing. What I did not have was a victim mentality. I tried all kinds of things, starting my own company, working any job I could find, doing temp work, etc.

I worked my ass off in the last decade to improve my situation, with the help of my family.

>>(and presumably you)

Nope, self educated, The only debt I have is my mortgage for which I about 50%+ positive equity, and have an aggressive pay-down rate that will see it paid in full in a few years from now to bring myself back to a debt free status

I do feel for people that were sold the bill of goods that is debt funded education, personally I think the way to fund education is for people to enter the workforce and have employers fund the education of the employee's.

Debt, nor government financed, is the correct way.

I also do not support Student loan forgiveness, However I do support cancelling all interest on federally owned student loans. The principle however should be paid back.

>>I will say that those who have done the best financially have been those who left the US.

that seems very subjective, but the studies I have seen do not support that. The data indicates that lots of people in the US have improved financially. Most of the Pandemic relief payments to individuals when to pay down debt, or still sits in saving accounts.

You could say that regionally, "Blue" coastal states seem to have been hit harder due to their draconian reaction to the pandemic. Nationally however I dont believe that statements bears true in the data

>Planning can only get you so far when rent goes up every year more than your wages do.

I agree there, Social stigma against multi-generational housing is a big contributor. Same with child raising. Family support structures is traditionally how families moved from one economic class to another. We have more than a generation now of destruction of the traditional family...

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote: I am Gen Z. This story holds true for my parents and I. My dad was a solider in Latin America, my mom, a nurse. Their job required, at most, 2 years of education beyond High School. I am a data analyst, with a Bachelor's and a Master's. I earn more than they both did together, adjusted for inflation. My friends are in "specialized jobs" as well -- some even being doctors and lawyers. We still have zero hope…

> We still have zero hope of affording a house, let alone retirement. This is ridiculous. If that’s actually true, move . Lower your expenses. Figure out something else.

Moving thousands of miles sucks. Leaving all of your family, friends, and work is an enormous disruption to a life.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#287
post #230

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Quoted post unavailable.

Why do you assume the poster ever cared about git, naming or racism? Even among Americans, these are minority. Moreover, HN is more of actively hostile tonideas like that. You don't even know whether OP is American. You are doing literally what you complain about why you complain about it. Moreover, bohemian literally means "a socially unconventional person, especially one who is involved in the arts". I am guessing…

Bohemia is a place and a people within what is now the Czech republic.

"Bohemian" got that meaning because French aristocratic youth saw Roma gypsy immegrants and just called them whatever the closest east European neighbors they thought of.

The fact that you think it is a lifestyle and not a people shows just how much history is lost. Somehow king Wenceslas got turned into a Christmas carol, but that's about it.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I think I sorta understand it, but I still wonder about how they will going to pay their bills. i.e, if they have their criteria on what is acceptable pay, won't the natural course of things is to quit on the unacceptable job and just find a better paying jobs, which means business as usual and wonder why there needs to be an article written on the first place. I was under the impression that the article seem t…

> I always wondered that my fellow friends graduated from expensive Ivy Leagues, still have student debt and still not making more than me. Simply put? They were given a false bill of goods. We were all told that if we went to college, it would all sort itself out. Then the recession happened and all hell broke loose lol. (Half) jokes aside, the answer is a lot more complicated and I want to address more of your resp…

No worries, I appreciate the (would be) response! Definitely will be looking forward for it.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The places I've seen with houses in the $50k to $80k range are in Rust Belt-esque areas whose time has long passed, or in places where a "career" means working at Walmart or cooking methamphetamine. Their economic prospects aren't that great, and their long term economic prospects are even worse. Rural areas also tend not to be great places for LGBT people, either.

The Bay Area was nothing in the 80s either. NYC wasn’t even a desirable place to be during that time either. People who pick just what’s attractive at the moment are pretty short-sighted and I have no sympathy for them.

> People who pick just what’s attractive at the moment are pretty short-sighted and I have no sympathy for them.

What's attractive and what's viable are often two separate things. NYC is not viable for someone making $40k a year, but neither is moving to the Rust Belt where their "options" are working part-time in department stores or literal crime.

Something tells me that this is a situation that can't be won in some people's minds. If someone makes the rational decision to not move somewhere that is not economically viable, in an area that's projected to become even more unviable with time, that's not good enough for some. If someone lives in a shitty area and moves elsewhere for better career prospects, but still can't make ends meet, well, according to posts like this, they should just have moved somewhere shitty instead.

If we applied the same to degrees, I doubt you'd feel the same about all of the "short-sighted" people who chose to study trades or liberal arts at a state school and now have poor economic prospects, instead of choosing what's attractive at the moment like STEM.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#290
post #105
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's mostly true however there's a lot of data that shows worrying trends. For example, millennials don't have anywhere near as much share of wealth as Gen X had at the same age. Wealth is being pretty heavily concentrated at the top of the age brackets.

Isn't wealth _always_ more concentrated in higher age brackets? It's only logical that the longer you've been around (and more dues you've paid) the more you opportunity you've had to accumulate whatever you're after. > millennials don't have anywhere near as much share of wealth as Gen X had I hate to go there, but isn't this because of their unrealistic views on work? I've heard of millennials not turning up for wo…

> I hate to go there, but isn't this because of their unrealistic views on work?

I don't know. Older people have a lot of vague, thinly supported stereotypes about the young, and they always have.

Actually, we all have stereotypes about each other. Millennials and Gen Z think Boomers were the generation that had everything handed to them: affordable college, affordable housing, secure low-skill high-pay union jobs, etc. And now they have the gall to judge younger generations for complaining about their challenges living in a much more competitive and unequal world.

I don't know if anyone's right about anyone else here.

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