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Gen Z does not dream of labor

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Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#91

Post by droopyEyelids »

derevaunseraun wrote: post #15

This article just sounds like stereotyping to me It sounds like the author is just projecting their own values onto the upcoming generation, viz "Gen Z cares about X" when really the author just cherry picks stuff that reaffirms his/her values I refuse to buy into any of this "Gen Z thinks X" or "Millennials think X" BS. The armchair sociologists should go out and actually contribute something worthwhile to society a…

Thanks for bringing this up. All 'generational discourse' is written by lazy journalists as a quick way to get people emotionally invested in an article without having to do actual research, and without the possibility of being proven wrong about their vague claims.

I find it particularly annoying because it's also an example of prejudicial ingroup/outgroup formation based on demagoguery. I'd go as far as saying it shares some of the same elements of racism-based demagoguery, but the targets are vague enough that it doesn't cause the same extreme social problems that racism does.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#92

Post by ThePrankster »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #56
burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

The problem with this narrative is that the job of the father isn't specified. He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. These jobs pay well above the minimum wage. The world has changed - simple labor that requires a few days of training doesn't pay much. Most jobs, with few exceptions, that require a decade of training, do pay well. That's why there's such a huge…

Anecdote: I am Gen Z. This story holds true for my parents and I.

My dad was a solider in Latin America, my mom, a nurse. Their job required, at most, 2 years of education beyond High School.

I am a data analyst, with a Bachelor's and a Master's. I earn more than they both did together, adjusted for inflation. My friends are in "specialized jobs" as well -- some even being doctors and lawyers. We still have zero hope of affording a house, let alone retirement.

Edit: for anyone wondering, my education was completely free as in my country college is free and I took my Master's in a Nordic country, where education is also free (I worked there to support myself too).

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#94

Post by droobles »

Tech is an exception to the rule, I've told friends it's tech or die tongue in cheek. Most of my friends aren't in tech, and all of them are convinced they will never own a home or get ahead in life, and so find it unwise to start a family, so might as well live it up now as there is no social safety net and most of them don't have employer insurance.

A lot of jobs will hire hourly and cap the worker at 34-39 hours as well to avoid providing benefits.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#95

Post by king-geedorah »

poutine wrote: post #71
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average house sold in 1946 cost $5.25K. The median salary at the time was $3K. The average house sold today costs $374K. The median salary is $51K. You can argue that those houses that were sold back then were smaller, but they were also made of vastly better materials than modern home construction, and it's not like people even have the opportunity of buying those smaller homes unless they want to live in a slum…

While housing has indeed gotten more expensive you can't compare absolute prices. First you're getting a vastly different product today than in 1946. Consumer demands are far higher too. Also to compare affordability the metric for most people would be the median percentage case of mortgage payments vs the persons take home pay. When measured this way it's been hovering around 30% for the past 40 years in the UK. htt…

The data is inherently skewed. You only have a mortgage if you can afford the down payment in the first place and so of course it’ll follow the age old rule of 1/3 of your income. This doesn’t capture how housing supply hasn’t followed population growth/ all the people stuck paying rent in perpetuity.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#97

Post by dale_glass »

derevaunseraun wrote: post #37
deathanatos wrote: post #30

> “I simply want to live my life slowly and lay down in a bed of moss with my lover and enjoy the rest of my existence reading books, creating art, and loving myself and the people in my life.” … and our article author thinks what, that Gen Z invented this? That generations before Gen Z "dream of labor"? Dreaming of labor is called a nightmare. I work to make ends meet.

> Dreaming of labor is called a nightmare. I work to make ends meet. I don't know... I think it's possible to think about work not as a zero-sum game but as an opportunity to grow and promote growth. But at the same time this is kind of a white collar mindset... it's hard to sell people on growth when the work is more demeaning

In many jobs there's no growth to be had.

Sure, here on HN, the average person is a programmer or sysadmin, and there you very much can have growth. Learning new languages and technologies, getting to work with high end equipment, etc.

But exactly what growth can an Amazon warehouse worker expect? Your job is to take things and put them in a box. There's no advanced techniques, no special knowledge, no skill to be obtained besides learning to perform the same movements better than you did your first week, and which are useful nowhere else.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#98

Post by raunak »

ThePrankster wrote: post #92
bufferoverflow wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this narrative is that the job of the father isn't specified. He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. These jobs pay well above the minimum wage. The world has changed - simple labor that requires a few days of training doesn't pay much. Most jobs, with few exceptions, that require a decade of training, do pay well. That's why there's such a huge…

Anecdote: I am Gen Z. This story holds true for my parents and I. My dad was a solider in Latin America, my mom, a nurse. Their job required, at most, 2 years of education beyond High School. I am a data analyst, with a Bachelor's and a Master's. I earn more than they both did together, adjusted for inflation. My friends are in "specialized jobs" as well -- some even being doctors and lawyers. We still have zero hope…

How much do you earn? Sorry if it’s rude, I’m genuinely just curious, I figured you’d make enough as a data analyst in any decent-COL living city to be fine

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#99

Post by causality0 »

bequanna wrote: post #48
causality0 wrote: post #10

It's a bit of a perfect storm. You have the rampant wealth inequality and abusive practices that came from decoupling worker productivity from worker compensation beginning in the 1970s with demography. 2022 is average year of retirement for the baby boomers, the largest generation. For at least the next two or three decades labor is only going to get more expensive.

Labor will only get more expensive if: 1. We are too restrictive on immigration 2. Politicians keep pushing to hand out freebies for votes. Stealing the gift of purpose and motivation from many. Forcing them to be state dependents who live troubled, meaningless lower middle class lives in perpetuity.

We would need a radical change on immigration to make a difference. Net migration from Mexico has been negative for years now. We should make those reforms but we aren't going to.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#100

Post by mgh2 »

eulers_secret wrote: post #90
burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

This is part of why I left my job. I had the realization that my dream (homeownership/2 kids) was untenable with my income (~$135K TC) in my area. I could certainly get the credit for it, but my life would be one long hardship living under wage slavery, being house-poor, having little free time, paying exorbitantly to watch others raise my kids, and not having the opportunities I currently have... I kinda gave up on…

Where do you live that is unaffordable?
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