It’s interesting to read these (plausible, far from absurd) analyses from the Anglosphere when we have an alternative to compare, to whit the northern European democracies where marriage is in steep decline across all social classes yet the societies are more successful (at least if your metrics are things like poverty rates, lifetimes, nutrition, stress, etc).
I think missing from this comparison is that while the US is quite different from Finland, New Hampshire when taken on its own is quite similar. But we never ask, “how could we make the whole US like New Hampshire?” and probably for good reason! I don’t think we’d want the whole US to be that way. The US is big and diverse and that’s a good thing.
No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing
691–700 of 1001 posts
Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing
#692Earlier quoted context omitted.
From what I've heard the problem are divorce courts granting women nearly everything. That rigs the game against dads. Marriage is a huge liability. Men are gambling with nearly all their lives on their partner's unwillingness into a divorce. On the other hand I've heard rumors where therapists were suggesting divorce to married women. I don't know how widespread that is but maybe something worth looking into.
As far as I know, in the US, the custody and house/apartment is almost always given to the parent who /wants/ the children. Men often don't fight for custody. They should. Also, the division of assets is not out of proportion I think. If I got married and my partner left the workforce to take care of the home/children, I do think they should get their fair share of assets in case of divorce.
Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing
#693Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree - and will take it one step further: he misses the root causes of "instability", and I bet it tracks directly with the gutting of the middle class starting in the 70's, and/or the same flat-lining of wages (not keeping up with inflation etc) despite huge increases in productivity in about the same time period. Money is a huge stressor in relationships. Misogyny is still a huge thing (to my utter surprise hone…
It's absolutely wild to me that Rob quotes: > Lack of money is certainly a contributing cause, as we will see, but rarely the only factor. It is usually the young father’s criminal behavior, the spells of incarceration that so often follow, a pattern of intimate violence, his chronic infidelity, and an inability to leave drugs and alcohol alone that cause relationships to falter and die. Without seeming to make any s…
I imagine this explains the correlation between poor minority neighborhoods during the crack epidemic or between the depressed rural areas and the opioid epidemic now.
Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing
#694Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nicely articulate point, that you for taking the time.
There is a certain class of very smart, articulate and well-thinking people. They are very good at arguing and dismissing and coming up with all sorts of valid reasons for all sorts of ideas. I find they detract the conversation a lot, instead of adding substance. I refer to the nebulous group of them as the "Intelligentsia", borrowed from others though.
Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing
#695I can appreciate this perspective because I used to have it. I even wrote a similar blog post 10 years ago - it was on the top of HN and the comment section was a beautiful shitshow. For me, this perspective was a good story to tell myself - it justified why I was only investing my time in “work”, and validated me for having “come so far”. Over time, I have reflected and shifted this perspective. That reflection cent…
I agree - and will take it one step further: he misses the root causes of "instability", and I bet it tracks directly with the gutting of the middle class starting in the 70's, and/or the same flat-lining of wages (not keeping up with inflation etc) despite huge increases in productivity in about the same time period. Money is a huge stressor in relationships. Misogyny is still a huge thing (to my utter surprise hone…
How does the gutting of the middle class harm stability of working class families?
Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing
#696Holy crap I never imagined so much weird Ward Cleaver ideology from HN. This thread is insane to read. I expected this article to be universally eviscerated, since it's tons of conjecture and bad data badly interpreted, but there's a ton of people who apparently feel like their male identity is attached to some bizarre archetype. Some sort of fucked up Form for men floating out in the ether that looks like a cross be…
Yet, you’ve taken this as a chance to demean an entire thread rather than engage in good faith and explore that difference of opinion. Do you think that kind of reflexive insulting dismissal is… …a healthy response? …a positive contribution? …a symptom of what they’re trying to explain?
Sometimes the healthy response is "This shit is nuts, I'm going to go talk to people in person and touch some grass."
Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing
#697Earlier quoted context omitted.
Rob went to Yale. He's literally a luxury columnist.
" When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. " ( https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ) You may not owe luxury columnists better, but you owe this community better if you're participating in it.
Dang you need to really revaluate your decisions on when to post or call people out for "rule violations".
Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing
#698Earlier quoted context omitted.
One thing that really stuck out to me was the implicit assumption that "stable home environment" requires or is equal to "married couple of biological parents living together until child becomes adult". Especially the quote where an agreement that stability is important was interpreted as agreement that marriage is important.
The evidence is that married couples are more stable than unmarried couples.
Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing
#699Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US is likely fine because our southern border is porous and anyone can walk right in. I don’t see any indication that this will change. The benefit is even if the US birth rate is declining, we have an influx of younger individuals who can help keep the economy going.
> The US is likely fine because our southern border is porous and anyone can walk right in Go ahead try it.
Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing
#700>Norms were loosened around being an absentee father. So more men took the option. I'm afraid that the author got it wrong. All social norms were destroyed between 1950's and now. If society desires hard working, law abiding, family loving young men, it should rebuild what it destroyed. The only interesting point in the story was about that "expert" which publicly behaves how society coerces her now to behave but sec…
Religion destroyed plenty of people and continues to right now. In the 19-20th centuries of the USA it wasn't such a pleasant life for non-WASP or women.