No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing • Hacker News Board

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#411

Post by AvocadoPanic » Sun, Apr 24, 2022, 3:01 PM UTC

franciscop wrote: post #340

AvocadoPanic wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

r/personalfinance is largely fine if you've made it that far. I read the comment you replied to to be the, follow your passion, university is required, lean-in, girl-boss, live your dream, it takes a village, shitty advice that permeates culture in the US. The messaging that children out of wedlock is pro-poverty and marriage is anti-poverty is nearly non-existant in the main stream. Same with the negative outcomes o…

Okay University required is the one I knew in the US that should be controversial but is not too much yet. Follow your passion seems to be similar to live your dream, and I can see that being terrible advice for young lower-class. This is AFAIK only a path encouraged for rich kids in Spain and only to certain extent, since they will inherit whatever. But probably due to chronic young unemployment, our society highly…

Yes generally that's it.

Girl-bossing is also the desire / goal to achieve success in a traditionally male fashion; Elizabeth Holms, Sheryl Sandberg, Carly Fiorina, etc. The obscured bit to this is that men typically don't value this sort of success in their wives or mothers of their children and many woman chasing this success end up in mid-level make-work jobs anyway.

It takes a village https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_takes_a_village

With the breakdown of marriage and the increase of 'non-traditional' families / decrease in nuclear families, this proverb was bandied about as marketing for 'non-traditional' families. Of course in practice the outcomes match what you'd expect a child raised by an African village to be.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

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Post by s1artibartfast » Sun, Apr 24, 2022, 3:01 PM UTC

pydry wrote: post #42

poszlem wrote: post #17

Rob Henderson also coined the term "luxury beliefs" which is one of the most apt name for something we've been witnessing lately ("defund the police" or "healthy at every size" or "marriage is just an oppressive institution of the patriarchy"). I highly recommend that other essay too https://nypost.com/2019/08/17/luxury-beliefs-are-the-latest-...

Defund the police blew up because certain communities' only experience of police is of being harassed, beaten and robbed. It's hardly an attitude that's dripping with privilege. The backlash, on the other hand...

Defund the police blew up because it was a simple sounding solution that outsiders could support while they didn't have to deal with the consequences.

Actual members of impoverished and minority communities never supported it, they wanted more policing to keep their neighborhoods safe. The base of support was privileged members outside of those communities.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

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Post by softcactus » Sun, Apr 24, 2022, 3:01 PM UTC

This article puts the blame of macro-level societal trends on individuals and takes zero material factors into account.

"Norms were loosened around being an absentee father. So more men took the option."

No source is provided. Just an opinion. It's pretty clear that anyone with this kind of opinion about "societal norms" and pressures has a pretty myopic view of history that doesn't go back before the 1950s, or an extremely sanitized view of history. It couldn't possibly be because of increasingly bleak outlook for the children of the working-class or a failed war on drugs or any number of actual tangible things other than "people are being degenerates"

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

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Post by dgfitz » Sun, Apr 24, 2022, 3:01 PM UTC

igetspam wrote: post #262

rabuse wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women also file for divorce 60 - 75% of the time (up to near 80% in the black community). Men are risk assessors by nature, and see no benefit to risking their livelihoods for such little benefit.

By nature? Really? What are women, by nature? :popcorn:

Lmgtfy which might encourage you to reconsider making flame bait comments that serve no useful purpose.

http://journal.sjdm.org/jdm06016.pdf

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

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Post by gilbetron » Sun, Apr 24, 2022, 3:03 PM UTC

tyronehed wrote: post #62

What an amazing article, and bravo to the researchers for this amazing analysis. Now, I will get onto my down voting. I have watched generations of men devote himself to video games. They develop amazing skills in these artificial worlds. At the same time, I was reading tons of books, writing a few of my own and generally avoiding TV and video game. Of course, I was the freak. But I cannot wonder if that life in the…

Reading books are another type of fantasy land - games vs books have their pluses and minuses. Video games can be far more social, but can be vapid. Books can also be vapid, and very isolating, and give you the false belief that you are experiencing things. Books and games can be intellectually and emotionally stimulating. I've read a lot and played a lot, and, as usual, I've found a balance to be the best. I don't read as much as I used to (at least fiction), and going back and reading the occasional fiction book now and then has given me a different perspective on books.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#416

Post by DeWilde » Sun, Apr 24, 2022, 3:03 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #6

rayiner wrote: post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

Maybe for those men lucky enough to have families. A growing issue is the large percentage of men who do not and will likely never have families to ever take care of. If we think deadbeat dads unstable, the incel community is a madhouse.

Is that really an issue? If you are a stable personality finding a mate isn't that much of an issue. Especially today with high mobility and dating apps if you put your back to it you can find a partner.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

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Post by onlyrealcuzzo » Sun, Apr 24, 2022, 3:04 PM UTC

lyaa wrote: post #178

t0suj4 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've heard the problem are divorce courts granting women nearly everything. That rigs the game against dads. Marriage is a huge liability. Men are gambling with nearly all their lives on their partner's unwillingness into a divorce. On the other hand I've heard rumors where therapists were suggesting divorce to married women. I don't know how widespread that is but maybe something worth looking into.

As far as I know, in the US, the custody and house/apartment is almost always given to the parent who /wants/ the children. Men often don't fight for custody. They should. Also, the division of assets is not out of proportion I think. If I got married and my partner left the workforce to take care of the home/children, I do think they should get their fair share of assets in case of divorce.

> Men often don't fight for custody.

In the cases where both do, majority custody is almost always given to the wife.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

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Post by notacoward » Sun, Apr 24, 2022, 3:04 PM UTC

photochemsyn wrote: post #324

lkey wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Watching and hearing about the family instability in these communities is heartbreaking. Half or more of everyone’s parents are divorced. The kids float around seeking stability and the adults can’t provide it. You seem to be attributing the cause of this to 'Telling men and boys it's cool and fine to divorce' and not attributing to say... declining material and social capitol in the lower four quintiles of wealth…

So much of the elite wealthy class and their media sock puppets on both sides of the traditional left/right political divide are dedicated to pushing the identitarian culture war theme - because what they don't want to deal with is something like this: "Creating an economy where men can attain dignity and social respect."

Not sure of you realize it, but by focusing a common social-justice phrase on men alone you promote exactly the same kind of "identitarian culture war" that you decry. Might not be that effective.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#419

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Sun, Apr 24, 2022, 3:04 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #249

lettergram wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America so thoroughly that the head of the “conservative” party is a three-times-divorced man of little character. I think that’s an interesting point. The political window has shifted further and further left in recent years. The fact is he’s not the head of the conservative moment, he’s the head of the Republican Party. There are differing factions and he promised something most in the party could support. For ex…

> The political window has shifted further and further left in recent years. As an outside observer, I'm Canadian, this viewpoint of many Americans that their politics has shifted "left" is flabbergasting. The SC has definitely shifted hard right and Roe v. Wade is essentially overturned, or being, overturned in many states. "Don't say gay" and other anti LGBQT+ laws are being passed. I feel you are using a very "tru…

"Don't say gay" used to be the rule not just in elementary schools but in most organizations in the US. Up until 2011, you would be immediately dismissed from the military if you said gay under the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy. The Democratic president at the time claimed to have a Bible-based belief that marriage is between one man and one woman, although a lot of commentators suspect he was lying for political advantage. I wouldn't claim that there's no issues the US as shifted right on, and you're right that abortion is a big one, but I don't think anyone who remembers what the country was like a decade or two ago could deny a general leftwards shift.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

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Post by dgfitz » Sun, Apr 24, 2022, 3:04 PM UTC

yummypaint wrote: post #279

bobcostas55 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schools in poor areas have higher funding than schools in rich areas, the property tax funding is only one part of where schools get their money from. See this report for example: https://nces.ed.gov/pubs95/web/95300.asp (it's a bit old but nothing substantive has changed).

The paper you linked to opens its summary of results with the following: "How do education expenditures vary with alternative district and community measures? Students in districts enrolling the lowest percentages of students in poverty and the lowest percentages of students in need of special education services received the highest expenditures."

I disagree.

https://foxbaltimore.com/amp/news/project-baltimore/census-b...