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Ask HN: Migadu? Postale? Mxroute? Or any other mail services using this model?

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Ask HN: Migadu? Postale? Mxroute? Or any other mail services using this model?

#1
I'm still looking round for an alternative to Google Workspace, when they get rid of the free tier for custom domains, in a month or so's time.

My needs are pretty basic; I just want a reliable email service that I can run on my own domain, with a couple of addresses for family members. I'm not bothered about all the other business-related stuff. Privacy and encryption would be preferable, but not an absolute deal-breaker. Anything I want to discuss in private goes by encrypted messenger anyway, not email.

One must have is IMAP support. I run a load of email addresses [not all via Gmail or Google Workspaces] so I want to be able to keep them all in the same place [Thunderbird] and not have to fire up different apps for different accounts.

So far, I've checked out most of the oft-recommended options; Protonmail, Tutanota, Mailbox, Mailfence, CTemplar, Runbox, Zoho, etc. and found that there were issues with most of them --whether this was lack of IMAP support, lack of Unicode support [Hello Runbox and Zoho. It's 2022!] or just general uneasiness after reading customer reviews.

But, by far the biggest no-no with all of these services is that they charge for each separate email address. I have emails set up on my domain for the missus, and a couple of family members. So 4 in all. As each of these services charges per user, that effectively means quadruple the stated price for any of them. For amount of emails sent on the accounts --a handful a week at most, that ends up being prohibitively expensive, for the amount of usage.

Which brings me onto the 3 mentioned in the title. Migadu[0], Postale[1] and MXroute[2] all charge by the amount of emails you send, not by the number of actual addresses you set up on the domain. Which seems a much fairer system. Especially for my use case. So, unless anyone is aware of another option, I'm wavering between those three.

I still have some doubts though:

MIGADU --Probably the best known of this business model and the prices seem reasonable for what I want. But a quick read through their T&Cs is pretty alarming. Their Acceptable Use policy [3] pretty much says they can suspend your account without warning for a huge range of subjective reasons. Including:

  >Hate speech, racism, calls for violence, Nazism as well any other immoral, unethical or socially unacceptable activity will be denied service. If illegal, we will report such to the authorities.
Quite apart from the fact that this implies that Migadu are scanning the content of every email that their users send; what the actual fuck is a bloody email server company doing, taking on the role of arbitrating what is 'Nazi', 'immoral' or 'socially unacceptable'?

This virtue signalling shite is really going too far these days. By all means take down accounts that are indulging in illegal activity, but otherwise just keep your noses the hell out of people's private correspondence!

So, thats's MIGADU ruled out. Next up...

POSTALE --I didn't actually find anything too egregious on the Postale website. But that was part of the problem. I couldn't find any info about the company at all. ie. where are they based?.. where are their servers?.. etc? Even on the company 'About' page[4], all we get is mention of an unnamed 'creator' and the only contact details are an email address. I have absolutely no idea where this company is based, or what size it is. For all I know, it could be some kid in his bedroom. A bit dubious about entrusting my email to such an unknown entity.

MXROUTE --I hadn't heard of these, til I saw a few recommendations on HN. On the face of it, it seems to be a good fit. I'm not afraid of a bit of setup and configuration. However, I have noticed people complaining about the company's 'attitude' and, reading through their FAQs they do come across as pretty abrasive --even down to making a point of not offering refunds to anyone who signs up and doesn't like the service.

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Re: Ask HN: Migadu? Postale? Mxroute? Or any other mail services using this model?

#2
[Wow! --first time I've hit HN's post character limit!]

Now, someone said they have this kind of attitude as a way of targeting their offering towards more tech-minded people and deterring the more needy users. And, at first, I thought; "OK. Fair enough". But, the more I thought about it the more it started sounding a bit like Steve Jobs. If I sign up and find it's not to my needs, I basically get told to fuck off because I'm obviously 'holding it wrong'.

That attitude might be fine for someone offering a free product. But it's not acceptable for a paid service. As I've said on here before, I think there are far too many developers about these days, who've seen Steve Jobs and Linus Torvalds and think that being an obnoxious arrogant arsehole makes you some kind of techie rock star. When, in fact, it just makes you an obnoxious arrogant arsehole.

So there's where I'm up to at the minute. Anyone got any comments re the three mentioned above, or know any other email services which are using this kind of business model, as opposed to per email account charging?

The way things are going at the moment, I can see myself ending up spinning up a Mail-in-a-Box[5] server. As nothing I've found out there so far seems worthy of giving my money to.

[0] https://www.migadu.com

[1] https://postale.io

[2] https://mxroute.com

[3] https://www.migadu.com/use

[4] https://postale.io/about-us

[5] https://mailinabox.email/

Re: Ask HN: Migadu? Postale? Mxroute? Or any other mail services using this model?

#4
post #2

[Wow! --first time I've hit HN's post character limit!] Now, someone said they have this kind of attitude as a way of targeting their offering towards more tech-minded people and deterring the more needy users. And, at first, I thought; "OK. Fair enough". But, the more I thought about it the more it started sounding a bit like Steve Jobs. If I sign up and find it's not to my needs, I basically get told to fuck off be…

FTR I've migrated from Google Apps to Migadu and I'm pretty happy with them but I must say the "acceptable use" clause also raised my suspicion. I guess they don't scan your email automatically but when someone brings to their attention that you're using the service for "unacceptable things" they will trigger the termination. Which, to be honest, happens with other providers even if that's not in the ToS (see Cloudflare case).

Re: Ask HN: Migadu? Postale? Mxroute? Or any other mail services using this model?

#5
post #2

[Wow! --first time I've hit HN's post character limit!] Now, someone said they have this kind of attitude as a way of targeting their offering towards more tech-minded people and deterring the more needy users. And, at first, I thought; "OK. Fair enough". But, the more I thought about it the more it started sounding a bit like Steve Jobs. If I sign up and find it's not to my needs, I basically get told to fuck off be…

If you're going the mailinabox route, I recommend also looking at Mailcow. Mailinabox is a full Linux distribution, Mailcow puts a mail server in docker-compose. Both are fully featured, but last time I looked into it I found that Mailinabox is running on more outdated/near-EOL software than I'd like.

As an added bonus, you have can pay the Mailcow devs for a hosted server so you don't need to deal with updates and such, whereas mailinabox seems exclusively aimed at running your own (which is a perfectly valid position to have as an open source dev!)

Either way, you'll probably need to do some configuration on any self-hosted mail service because SMTPUTF support for mail addresses is surprisingly uncommon in default compilation settings on open source software. Notably, the Dovecot devs seem convinced that nobody needs UTF8 in their email addresses and sometimes even dismiss this feature as "silly". Sadly, most self-hosted email options use Dovecot in some way or another so you may be out of luck if you try to run this stuff yourself.

Re: Ask HN: Migadu? Postale? Mxroute? Or any other mail services using this model?

#6
I've used Migadu and MXRoute and found Migadu to be the easiest to use by a long shot. MXRoute's setup and configuration is full of friction and just odd ways of doing simple things like logging into your account or adding email addresses and the like.

It sounds more like you have philosophical differences with these 2 companies, as they are very opinionated right out the gate, as you noted. I think, since they're small teams, they're trying to scare off users who are going to require a lot of time and effort on the customer service side.

That said, my interactions with both companies has been pleasant and professional. But it really does sound like you're going to need to roll your own service based on your major complaints.

Re: Ask HN: Migadu? Postale? Mxroute? Or any other mail services using this model?

#7
> Quite apart from the fact that this implies that Migadu are scanning the content of every email that their users send; what the actual fuck is a bloody email server company doing, taking on the role of arbitrating what is 'Nazi', 'immoral' or 'socially unacceptable'?

Do they mention anywhere that they are actually scanning the content and/or metadata? I'd assume this just means that if they get reports about using their platform for sending unacceptable content, they have the rights to deny the service, and, if needed, report you to the authorities.

Re: Ask HN: Migadu? Postale? Mxroute? Or any other mail services using this model?

#9
post #3

I can vouch for purelymail ( https://purelymail.com/ ), it's simply amazing. Their only rule is basically no marketing emails. It's also quite affordable compared to others.

Thanks for this. Purelymail looks to tick all the boxes for me and their T&Cs seem reasonable [at least compared to Migadu]. I've never heard of the company though. And they seem to be a one man band, which is a bit of a concern --the old "walks under a bus" scenario.

I shall have to investigate further.

Re: Ask HN: Migadu? Postale? Mxroute? Or any other mail services using this model?

#10

> Quite apart from the fact that this implies that Migadu are scanning the content of every email that their users send; what the actual fuck is a bloody email server company doing, taking on the role of arbitrating what is 'Nazi', 'immoral' or 'socially unacceptable'? Do they mention anywhere that they are actually scanning the content and/or metadata? I'd assume this just means that if they get reports about using…

  >Do they mention anywhere that they are actually scanning the content and/or metadata? 
No. But they don't say they aren't either. I prefer not to rely on "I thought you meant..." "No, we actually meant..." when it comes to contracts.
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