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No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#261

Post by dijit »

walkhour wrote: post #136
karpierz wrote: post #72

The article cites an anecdote about a young father who sat around the house arguing, fighting and drinking. He ends up getting kicked out of the house. The 1960s version of this story instead ends with the husband beating his wife behind closed doors without repercussions. Which is preferable?

> the husband beating his wife behind closed doors without repercussions Families were much bigger back then. The extended family was always around. Communities were much tighter and actually existed. I think you don't have a good understanding of those times if you think women could be beaten around without repercussions, and honestly, thinking women are so helpless smells of sexism.

> I think you don't have a good understanding of those times if you think women could be beaten around without repercussions

Or, you don’t.

It is definitely true that domestic violence was in the realm of “basically normal”, I’d guesstimate 20% of households had an abusive person in them: and if you were married and your partner was not physically violent it was considered that they were a “good person”.

This swings both ways more than you think, my grandfather (mothers father) was very physically abusive, a point which he was mocked for (derisively) openly in the pub (but that’s about the only repercussion). My great grand mother (mothers-mothers mother) was abusive towards my great grandfather. Which he was mocked for (jovially) openly by the whole family.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#262

Post by igetspam »

rabuse wrote: post #223
t0suj4 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've heard the problem are divorce courts granting women nearly everything. That rigs the game against dads. Marriage is a huge liability. Men are gambling with nearly all their lives on their partner's unwillingness into a divorce. On the other hand I've heard rumors where therapists were suggesting divorce to married women. I don't know how widespread that is but maybe something worth looking into.

Women also file for divorce 60 - 75% of the time (up to near 80% in the black community). Men are risk assessors by nature, and see no benefit to risking their livelihoods for such little benefit.

By nature? Really? What are women, by nature?

:popcorn:

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#263

Post by lolinder »

giantg2 wrote: post #246
rayiner wrote: post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

"The article is right on the mark talking about the importance of social expectations for men." Those only really work if the opportunities are there for the person to succeed. If you have no hope of success, then people just give up.

True. But people also just give up if they're constantly told that all the opportunities are gone, whether or not it's true. If you combine "there are no opportunities for me" with "there are no expectations for me", you get "I'll do nothing".

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#264

Post by greedo »

walkhour wrote: post #136
karpierz wrote: post #72

The article cites an anecdote about a young father who sat around the house arguing, fighting and drinking. He ends up getting kicked out of the house. The 1960s version of this story instead ends with the husband beating his wife behind closed doors without repercussions. Which is preferable?

> the husband beating his wife behind closed doors without repercussions Families were much bigger back then. The extended family was always around. Communities were much tighter and actually existed. I think you don't have a good understanding of those times if you think women could be beaten around without repercussions, and honestly, thinking women are so helpless smells of sexism.

I was born in the Sixties, and my parents married in the Fifties. The idea that everyone lived in the same area they were born in was already not the norm. I think between the Great Depression and WW2, the difficulty of moving to new places became much lower. So there were many families that didn't have multiple generations under one roof. And even so, that didn't prevent abuse from happening.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#265

Post by archhn »

dennis_jeeves1 wrote: post #238
archhn wrote: post #53

We're living in an utterly corrupt society. I know the middle class types on here don't like to hear it, but it's true. At the bottom of society, one can see clearly how bad it is. In the middle, you are insulated in your little suburban homes with your inflated sense of self-worth. Many people here are outright slaves. They are trapped in a predatory system that prevents them from gaining any dignity. It should be n…

>We're living in an utterly corrupt society. I know the middle class types on here don't like to hear it, but it's true. At the bottom of society, one can see clearly how bad it is. In the middle, you are insulated in your little suburban homes with your inflated sense of self-worth It's a fairly accurate representation of the way things are, as I see it. >This can't last forever. I think this was the way it was sinc…

How many civilizations have lasted since time immemorial? You could have said this in Rome and you would have been right. You could have said this as a slave to the pharos and you would have been right.

It never lasts forever.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#266

Post by refurb »

kevinventullo wrote: post #66
refurb wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They undermine it by: - claiming a single parent household is no worse for children than a two parent household - claiming men have no particular importance in the raising of children - financially supporting (in some cases subsidizing) single parent families

Do they? I can see the third bullet in practice, although I think it’s more of a fix than a cause for single-parent homes. On the other hand, my social circle is highly educated and well-off and I’m not sure I know a single person who would agree with the first bullet. The second point I’m less clear on myself: is there evidence that children of lesbian couples are somehow worse off?

For point #2, we can follow the idea to its logical conclusion. (Note: I have zero issues with gay parents, this is just a thought exercise)

If it stands to reason that if the children of lesbian parents are indistinguishable from those of mixed-sex parents, then men play no particular role in the upbringing of children, no? They can be swapped out by a woman with no change for the child.

And conversely if a child raised by two gay men are indistinguishable from mix-sex parents, then woman play no particular role in the upbringing of children, no? Replace the mother with another man and nothing changes in that child's upbringing?

And therefore, one could argue that a single parent (only a man or woman) are only worse off due to limited parental resources (not to be underestimated), but not because an opposite sex partner would add anything unique to the childrearing.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#267

Post by em-bee »

d23 wrote: post #44

Do people find this stuff compelling? Rank speculation and confident assertion with minimal substantive backing? I’d find this statement equally compelling (which is to say, not at all): > Since we stopped using horses as a primary means of transportation, men’s sense of self worth has diminished. Riding a horse carried a lot of high status connotations: drive, masculinity, towering above the land, and man’s dominati…

that's one thing i like about riding a bike. i get to look down at people in cars ;-)

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#268

Post by unix_fan »

rayiner wrote: post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

I’m from a middle class, conservative family in a poor country. Compared to my richer, status seeking classmates, I can handle myself a lot better socially and emotionally. I’m also disabled, that means the social divide is a lot tougher to crack. In fact, I get shot dirty looks by the same classmates. It’s not because They don’t like the fact I participate in my classes, it’s just that they don’t like the fact that someone who doesn’t have the same status can equal them in a lot of ways.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#269

Post by mensetmanusman »

deebosong wrote: post #194
AviationAtom wrote: post #79

I teach many folks that have just left high school, and entered the military. Their being content with doing pretty much nothing shocks me. Seeing the military enabling the behavior, even more so. All because recruiting is so hard right now. Many of the recruits do join the military because they have exhausted other options. It's sad to see how productive society once was, versus where we are now. It legitimately mak…

I'm not that young, but not old enough to have witnessed generational patterns of young men shifting as a cultural phenom. That being said, what do you feel is the cause of a drain in motivation on the endemic level? For some reason my gut reaction is to think that it's the outsourcing of jobs to other countries, and wages stagnating while prices go up. And then couple that with social media, of the life we're all to…

These young men aren’t getting weekly messages of hope like >80% were 60 years ago. Those that are are more likely flourishing according to all the pew research.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#270

Post by knicholes »

bredren wrote: post #180
sandworm101 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is sunday morning. I'm at work (military). Part of that job is checking in with people at a half-dozen other locations who are also at work on a sunday morning. they just happen to all be hetero guys, which is not unusual in the military no matter the day. So I asked in our chat whether they had wives/girlfriends at home today. "No." "Nope." "My car is my GF" and "Rocking a peppi shirt under my uniform". These are…

Do they play video games?

While an answer in the affirmative would tickle your confirmation bias activations, I'll counter with my anecdote that I play "video games" and have been happily married for 13 years and have two kids.
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