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No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#121

Post by BurningFrog »

rayiner wrote: post #74
sandworm101 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for those men lucky enough to have families. A growing issue is the large percentage of men who do not and will likely never have families to ever take care of. If we think deadbeat dads unstable, the incel community is a madhouse.

It’s not a matter of luck—men in my dad’s village in Bangladesh start families, have kids, and live relatively happy lives in poverty even most poor Americans could not comprehend. I don’t think it’s fair to call all these guys incels. As the article observes, most just have no expectations placed on them, and also have no way of attaining dignity and social worth through the avenues in life reasonably available to t…

OP wrote "lucky" but probably meant "fortunate".

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#122

Post by ss108 »

d23 wrote: post #44

Do people find this stuff compelling? Rank speculation and confident assertion with minimal substantive backing? I’d find this statement equally compelling (which is to say, not at all): > Since we stopped using horses as a primary means of transportation, men’s sense of self worth has diminished. Riding a horse carried a lot of high status connotations: drive, masculinity, towering above the land, and man’s dominati…

It's a shit article where the author lightly blames what one would generally call "elites" for the stupidity and moral ineptitude of lower-class people who avowedly hate elites and who make it a point of hating everything the "elites" like anyways.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#123

Post by AvocadoPanic »

refurb wrote: post #50
gumby wrote: post #19

It’s interesting to read these (plausible, far from absurd) analyses from the Anglosphere when we have an alternative to compare, to whit the northern European democracies where marriage is in steep decline across all social classes yet the societies are more successful (at least if your metrics are things like poverty rates, lifetimes, nutrition, stress, etc).

First off the article says nothing about marriage it speaks of “two parent households”, so an unmarried couple raising kids would fit the author’s thesis entirely. Second, pretty sure I’d argue the recent riots in Sweden would back up exactly the author’s theory around poorly behaved young males. But hey, your nutritional rate is high!

Or 'migrants' exhibiting the typical behavior of their homeland.

See Vienna 1683.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#124

Post by throwaway0a5e »

photochemsyn wrote: post #120

I think there are quite a few alternative explanations for the data cited in the article than the ones the author proposes: > "Today, one in six American men between the ages of 25 and 54 are unemployed or out of the workforce altogether: about 10 million men. This number has more than doubled since the 1970s." We have this place in the USA called "The Rust Belt" which was once a dynamic and active manufacturing cent…

>This resulted in the explosive growth of the quite profitable private prison complex (which did not exist before the 1970s)

The government prison complex is orders of magnitude larger.

Welfare is how they keep the poors from rocking the boat.

Government jobs is the same tranquilizer but for people slightly better off.

Edit: fine, maybe it's only one order of magnitude bigger.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#125

Post by em-bee »

kevinventullo wrote: post #66
refurb wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They undermine it by: - claiming a single parent household is no worse for children than a two parent household - claiming men have no particular importance in the raising of children - financially supporting (in some cases subsidizing) single parent families

Do they? I can see the third bullet in practice, although I think it’s more of a fix than a cause for single-parent homes. On the other hand, my social circle is highly educated and well-off and I’m not sure I know a single person who would agree with the first bullet. The second point I’m less clear on myself: is there evidence that children of lesbian couples are somehow worse off?

i don't think that is what the second point is about. there is a difference between having two involved parents and having one of the parents present but not involved with the kids at all. regardless of the gender, the latter will affect the children in different ways.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#126

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

archhn wrote: post #53

We're living in an utterly corrupt society. I know the middle class types on here don't like to hear it, but it's true. At the bottom of society, one can see clearly how bad it is. In the middle, you are insulated in your little suburban homes with your inflated sense of self-worth. Many people here are outright slaves. They are trapped in a predatory system that prevents them from gaining any dignity. It should be n…

While I broadly empathize with what you're saying here, this:

> No one that believes in their country becomes a criminal.

seems completely indefensible. There are all kinds of criminals who see it as a legitimate way to exist and thrive within society. There are also many different kinds of crime, including white collar. Particularly when you live in a "got to get ahead" society, pretty much anything that can you help you "get ahead" ends up feeling legitimate.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#127

Post by AvocadoPanic »

d_e_solomon wrote: post #114
AvocadoPanic wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No fault divorce, girl bossing, anti-shame messaging, delayed marriage.

Quoted post unavailable.

Moving women into the workforce as certainly reduced fecundidity and marriage.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#128

Post by dijit »

tyronehed wrote: post #62

What an amazing article, and bravo to the researchers for this amazing analysis. Now, I will get onto my down voting. I have watched generations of men devote himself to video games. They develop amazing skills in these artificial worlds. At the same time, I was reading tons of books, writing a few of my own and generally avoiding TV and video game. Of course, I was the freak. But I cannot wonder if that life in the…

Have you ever considered that it could be a multitude of reasons?

It’s easy to preach on high about enjoying books but I think that’s folly, we all enjoy different things and just because yours is “socially accepted” (for lack of a better term) doesn’t mean it’s inherently better. What you read is usually more important than the fact that you read, for example.

Regardless of that particular point: I find that men, especially young men, are consistently being told that their behaviour is bad. No matter what they do.

If they seek career status then they’re contributing to sexism by not making space for women (an extreme example but one I have been accused of openly).

If they seek male companionship and shared experiences they’re accused of “lad” behaviour and if it’s in public they’re usually targeted by police for loitering or giving an aura of unsafety.

If the world is hostile to you, why not retreat into a world where you basically put everything aside and feel a sense of accomplishment and fulfilment from a virtual world? The benefit is that nobody makes you feel bad about it while you’re doing it.

It’s only after the fact that people look down on you for enjoying yourself.

Note: I don’t really play games and I read a lot of books like you, but I make games and I really despise that people look down on my customers for enjoying themselves.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#129

Post by InTheArena »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #70
seibelj wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gallop: 81% of black Americans want police to spend same amount or more time in their area https://news.gallup.com/poll/316571/black-americans-police-r... Defund the police is popular with nobody except rich liberals living in privilege bubbles. People in crime ridden areas especially don’t want it.

"Defund the police" is merely an agitational short slogan for "we need some other way of governing the safety of our communities, because this is clearly not working." Like many short and pithy slogans, it may not be communicating that message effectively at all. It's not like police forces are an eternal attribute of all civilizations. Modern policing is actually pretty young.

This is the flip side of the “take trump seriously, not literally” argument that went around trying to normalize him in the last election.

There are people who absolutely Believe that any police force is a slave enforcement force (or derived from one) and a tool of white tool to subjugate others. To them it must be eradicated.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#130

Post by stevespang »

rayiner wrote: post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

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