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No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#21
post #7
post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

We need to find a better reason why this happens. I don't believe it's liberal social values which are not lived by. First of I would believe it's an educational problem and second it's a 'who cares' problem. There are plenty of areas/ghettos of low income and low education around. The blog also contains the following: "The people with the most money and education—the class most responsible for shaping culture and cu…

There are many reasons. Values, mental health, family baggage, opportunities (there is no shortage of opportunities in America - regardless of race). Yes you may need to work twice as hard but none the less it’s an opportunity.

Assuming young healthy men, the next big issue is values. Are they self centered? Prideful? Presumptuous? These are values parents teach to avoid and cultivate beneficial qualities - they cannot be delegated to others. A growing trend is the absent parent (entire other thread on its own - not faulting the parent). Schools or anyone else should not teach children this. Out of need it happens at times and what you see is a reflection of the broader community.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#22
post #7
post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

We need to find a better reason why this happens. I don't believe it's liberal social values which are not lived by. First of I would believe it's an educational problem and second it's a 'who cares' problem. There are plenty of areas/ghettos of low income and low education around. The blog also contains the following: "The people with the most money and education—the class most responsible for shaping culture and cu…

No fault divorce, girl bossing, anti-shame messaging, delayed marriage.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#23

> The people with the most money and education—the class most responsible for shaping culture and customs—ensure that their children are raised in stable homes. But actively undermine the norm for everyone else. Yep. If you were raised in poverty, the WORST thing you can do is listen to "approved" mainstream advice. That culture / media isn't there to help you, but to sell you things or make money on telling you what…

So I strongly disagree with that point, which could be based in cultures (specially in Spain where I have more experience seeing these things); I haven't seen enough of the mainstream USA advice, but for example I believe mainstream advice is still to get a degree in the USA, while if a degree costed $100k+ I believe in Spain it'd def not be mainstream advice and instead to tell people to strongly consider other alte…

> So I'm genuinely curious about examples you could give about this? Do you consider e.g. /r/personalfinance as "approved" mainstream advice? I believe it caters fairly well to the low-middle-even-high classes, but probably not to the lowest (homeless) or highest (super-rich).

Nothing on Reddit is 'mainstream'. Most people have never visited the site.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#24

This has been a really good read! Thanks for sharing, the only place where I had a strong disagreement was this, which could definitely be based on cultural differences: > The people with the most money and education—the class most responsible for shaping culture and customs—ensure that their children are raised in stable homes. But actively undermine the norm for everyone else. I am not from the USA but I don't beli…

Criminality and education are not distinct. Better-educated people commit crimes at roughly the same rate, they are just far less likely to be caught. Either the nature of thier crimes does not lend itself to reporting (embezzelment v. bank robbery) or they recieve different treatment by the legal system.

> "Better-educated people commit crimes at roughly the same rate"

That's a really strong claim IMHO, do you have sources? I would strongly expect that better education is correlated with lower crime rates, and all research and articles I've been able to find so far seem to suggest that:

> Results show that increased college graduation rates corresponds to a significant decrease in the crime rate. A 5% increase in the college graduation rate, for instance, produces an 18.7% reduction in the homicide rate

[1] https://as.nyu.edu/content/dam/nyu-as/politics/documents/Gon...

[2] https://criminal-justice.iresearchnet.com/crime/education-an...

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Incels are a part, not all of that group. But they are a percentage. A greater number of perpetually single men, those who do in fact want a family as opposed to thise who chose not to have one, does mean a greater number of radical incels. Even without going full radical incel, a great many single males lose hope and lose thier drive to achieve. I work with some. They just dont care about work/money/stability/future…

I'm curios if there is a female equivalent of a radical incel?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I strongly disagree with that point, which could be based in cultures (specially in Spain where I have more experience seeing these things); I haven't seen enough of the mainstream USA advice, but for example I believe mainstream advice is still to get a degree in the USA, while if a degree costed $100k+ I believe in Spain it'd def not be mainstream advice and instead to tell people to strongly consider other alte…

> So I'm genuinely curious about examples you could give about this? Do you consider e.g. /r/personalfinance as "approved" mainstream advice? I believe it caters fairly well to the low-middle-even-high classes, but probably not to the lowest (homeless) or highest (super-rich). Nothing on Reddit is 'mainstream'. Most people have never visited the site.

Fair enough, that's why I was asking whether Reddit advice is similar somehow to mainstream advice. What would you consider mainstream advice then? Do you have any article that shows mainstream advice (for the USA)?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#27

A counter is that other countries (Japan, Korea, Italy, ...) that enforce traditional values have had a collapse in the birth rate. Having children out of wedlock is a safety valve for broken institutions that keeps the birth rate higher in the US than comparable countries; that plus relatively open integration helps us maintain our economy, welfare state, pensions, etc. If we turned the screws on women and men to di…

I think this is also in part (in addition to the immigration) because the US overall is a pretty happy country, compared to places like Korea or Japan. It is still possible to afford to have children, though increasingly difficult.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#28
post #17

Rob Henderson also coined the term "luxury beliefs" which is one of the most apt name for something we've been witnessing lately ("defund the police" or "healthy at every size" or "marriage is just an oppressive institution of the patriarchy"). I highly recommend that other essay too https://nypost.com/2019/08/17/luxury-beliefs-are-the-latest-...

“Luxury beliefs” puts a name to a phenomenon that I’ve been wondering about. Like the availability of venture capital and calories, I strongly suspect there are many behaviors that will go away or retreat if the economy faltered. We’re seeing interest rates rise, so I suppose that I’ll get to see whether or not this is the case.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#29
> The educated class decides cohabiting partnerships are just as valid and important as marriage. And they also believe it’s okay to walk away at a moment’s notice from a cohabiting relationship.

This is very dependent on whether there are children or not. I don't think the educated class believes that it's ok for a father to just walk away from their children and refuse to be a major part of their lives.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#30

A counter is that other countries (Japan, Korea, Italy, ...) that enforce traditional values have had a collapse in the birth rate. Having children out of wedlock is a safety valve for broken institutions that keeps the birth rate higher in the US than comparable countries; that plus relatively open integration helps us maintain our economy, welfare state, pensions, etc. If we turned the screws on women and men to di…

The US has a low (and falling) birthrate. Not quite as low as South Korea, but certainly not high by any means.
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