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Dear John Carmack.

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Re: Dear John Carmack.

#21

Post by jQueryIsAwesome »

brianobush wrote: post #18
kennymeyers wrote: post #10

This article is so full of incendiary bullshit, I'm surprised it even got on the front page. Some of the most critically acclaimed games, as well as highest selling games, have stories. For example: Grand Theft Auto 3. Final Fantasy VII. Ico. Metal Gear Solid. Arkham Asylum. Mass Effect. Dragon Age. Dark Souls. Demon Souls. Starcraft. Starcraft II. Modern Warfare. World of Warcraft. Do you know what else made these g…

Yes, these games made it big and were good, but did they really push boundaries and invent new styles of play? No, they are just a story with an engine - the OP is talking about JC going off and doing something "different."

GTA3 revolutionized the open world games. And some people think is a genre itself. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_clone)

Re: Dear John Carmack.

#22

Post by JVirissimo »

kennymeyers wrote: post #10

This article is so full of incendiary bullshit, I'm surprised it even got on the front page. Some of the most critically acclaimed games, as well as highest selling games, have stories. For example: Grand Theft Auto 3. Final Fantasy VII. Ico. Metal Gear Solid. Arkham Asylum. Mass Effect. Dragon Age. Dark Souls. Demon Souls. Starcraft. Starcraft II. Modern Warfare. World of Warcraft. Do you know what else made these g…

I played Deus Ex when I was in high school and was more impressed by its storyline than anything I read in English lit.

Re: Dear John Carmack.

#23

Post by ary »

5hoom wrote: post #12

I will agree with one thing from the article, he's John freakin' Carmack . This is a man who has been pushing the boundaries of realtime graphics since Wolfenstein3D. We owe him a lot, and I think he has earned the right to work on whatever project he damn well chooses. People seem to imagine all the amazing things he could have done with his time while glossing over the amazing things he has done right here, right n…

> He has a team of artists who help realise the (visual) potential of the awesome new tech he has developed. The gameplay itself comes second. Heresy, I know, but this has been the pattern for a number of releases and if the id team are happy with that then more power to them.

What it really comes down to is that id games are basically showcases for their latest engine tech. The licensing income from the engines (which they call idTech if I recall) probably overshadows the games within a year of release.

Re: Dear John Carmack.

#24

Post by stephth »

kennymeyers wrote: post #10

This article is so full of incendiary bullshit, I'm surprised it even got on the front page. Some of the most critically acclaimed games, as well as highest selling games, have stories. For example: Grand Theft Auto 3. Final Fantasy VII. Ico. Metal Gear Solid. Arkham Asylum. Mass Effect. Dragon Age. Dark Souls. Demon Souls. Starcraft. Starcraft II. Modern Warfare. World of Warcraft. Do you know what else made these g…

Some of the most critically acclaimed games, as well as highest selling games, have stories.

He's not saying games don't have stories, of course they do, he's saying that some game designers get distracted from making good mechanics, which I agree, is a huge mistake. Mechanics is the core of the medium, and shouldn't be put second on the list.

Valve gets that. Their attention and talent put into storytelling and art direction is top-notch, yet that has never distracted them from making sure their mechanics are excellent.

Re: Dear John Carmack.

#27

Post by 5hoom »

ary wrote: post #23
5hoom wrote: post #12

I will agree with one thing from the article, he's John freakin' Carmack . This is a man who has been pushing the boundaries of realtime graphics since Wolfenstein3D. We owe him a lot, and I think he has earned the right to work on whatever project he damn well chooses. People seem to imagine all the amazing things he could have done with his time while glossing over the amazing things he has done right here, right n…

> He has a team of artists who help realise the (visual) potential of the awesome new tech he has developed. The gameplay itself comes second. Heresy, I know, but this has been the pattern for a number of releases and if the id team are happy with that then more power to them. What it really comes down to is that id games are basically showcases for their latest engine tech. The licensing income from the engines (whi…

And that is an argument that has merit.

The counter to that would be that if you hadn't noticed this pattern by now with recent id games you haven't been paying attention.

To say that id's releases are more tech demos than games is one thing. To come up with harebrained theories as to why this is the case is another.

Re: Dear John Carmack.

#28

Post by panza »

jhermsmeyer wrote: post #6

So poorly written, I find it hard to take seriously. tl;dr Make fun games, not pretty ones. The problem is that it is never obvious when mechanics make a game great, and when art direction does. See Bioshock for the latter. See something like Everquest for the former (and which was later eclipsed by a game with better mechanics AND art direction). Great games are rare. You need both of the above, and more.

> So poorly written, I find it hard to take seriously.

English is not the author's primary language.

Re: Dear John Carmack.

#29

Post by angrycoder »

5hoom wrote: post #12

I will agree with one thing from the article, he's John freakin' Carmack . This is a man who has been pushing the boundaries of realtime graphics since Wolfenstein3D. We owe him a lot, and I think he has earned the right to work on whatever project he damn well chooses. People seem to imagine all the amazing things he could have done with his time while glossing over the amazing things he has done right here, right n…

Carmack is a programmer. He is THE tech guy. He isn't a game designer, he isn't the one doing the gameplay. It isn't the artists or Carmack.

Re: Dear John Carmack.

#30

Post by z92 »

Since 90s John Carmack wrote games for hardware planning two years in the future. During his planning and development stage, those games were barely playable on standard gaming machines of the time. But he correctly knew that by the time these games will be released, hardware will get two to four times faster.

Thus for long he was the fist to come up with games that demonstrated the full capabilities of new hardwares. This formula worked until around mid 2000s when suddenly processors weren't getting the yearly speed boost as usual. Doom3 was it's first casualty. It was designed for a hardware that never appeared in market. Game designers had to trim down on-screen characters to make the game playable and released it late.

And rest is what we see now. That's my understanding of the situation.

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