Live data from Hacker News

How I live on $7,000 per year

earlyretirementextreme.com

91–100 of 222 posts

Re: How I live on $7,000 per year

#91
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm intrigued by your comment that you have an advanced degree in economics. I don't, but it seems obvious to me that you're missing something (I'm happy to be corrected here!): the problem isn't the lack of consumers so much as a lack of incentive to produce. If everyone becomes an entrepreneur, compelled to be stingy and just do productive things for the fun of it, then they're still being productive, and the world…

Actually that is NOT at all what my argument is. My argument is that people can produce as much as they want, but you still need someone to consume your product. Just being productive gives you only the supply side, but what about demand, why make would make something when people do not demand it. Remember PG's rule: Make something that people want. Want is demand. You cannot make things without taken into contention…

> You cannot make things without taken into [consideration] who would consume them and by how much. A business is based on how many people actually USE what it makes, and are ready to pay for it.

Exactly. Perhaps a good way to view this would be to resrict the definition of supply to be only something that has a demand. So a fisherman that "supplies" rotten fish that nobody wants is not providing a supply, he is just wasting resources.

The hard part of economics is always the supply part: how can you increase supply? (Supply defined as what people want.) When productivity is below the subsistence level, increasing supply consists in just producing more food. But as productivity grows beyond the subsistence level, the challenge becomes an informational one: out of all the things you could do, what should you do to increase the total supply the most? A man who is hungry just wants more food, any food. But a man who is sated will only want certain particular kinds of food or maybe something else entirely.

This is what prices in a free market are for: they provide information about what the economy needs the most. In an economy of hungry people, any kind of food will sell. But as the population gets sated, prices will tell producers that common-place food is not needed anymore and that they should produce something else.

Re: How I live on $7,000 per year

#92
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After those taxes and $30K invested you'd only have $2506.

Okay, that's nitpicking. Make that 26k invested then. Also, you can reduce the taxes by diverting into an IRA. Also, after the first year, you can begin to add investment income on top of your regular income. This investment income will increase by about $1000 each year.

With those numbers $4K isn't nitpicking it's 10% of your net.

Re: How I live on $7,000 per year

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like living in the US. We bought our home in cash. Our home is currently an RV---bear with me here. The cost of it was $16k. We pay a combined $6000/year in rent (half of which is my half). You need $200k in investments to support such a cash flow (which I have). So the total cost or asset base or our current living situation is about $216,000 (not counting repairs which I can mostly do myself). We're seriously thi…

What rorrr said, but not in quite such an inflammatory tone. I think it's great that you've found a lifestyle you enjoy that also allows you to get by with very little money. What I take issue with is your judgmental tone in the article - as if there's something wrong with everyone else for not wanting to live in an RV. This country faces a dire economic crisis, and there is no doubt that the income of the middle cla…

It wasn't written "for a general audience". I and my regular readers are regularly judged negatively for not choosing to consume and go into debt like everybody else so the blog is more of a support group for those who are willing to go against the stream and actually save money so they can avoid the typical middle class problems above.

I admit, there's a bit of "I told you so"-attitude, although one quickly learns that nobody really wants to take responsibility for the poor choices they've made or for that matter are going to make. Whereas everybody is willing to attribute their good decisions to their personal genius. The general zeitgeist of the housing boom and subsequent bust illustrates this well.

Re: How I live on $7,000 per year

#94

At some point during my college career I learned about the Rat Race and was propelled to discard my desire to climb the corporate ladder and decided to live a life similar to jfoucher (How I live on $7000 per year). However, after living frugally for a couple years I saved up enough money and decided to travel the world. Fast forward to today - after witnessing first hand the lives of those less fortunate while trave…

I pretty much spend my time trying to "educate" unaware, materialistic consumers. I've affected more people than I can count (those who've told me) and presumable more beyond those (who didn't tell me). So I have a blog, a book, a forum, and now a wiki. There's not really a rat race option for what I do, but if there was, maybe I'd take it. Incidentally, I don't really have a problem with people using the freedom the…

As someone who has started down the path of growing a passive income stream, your article really resonated with me. I found myself nodding along to the points you were making, since I have had similar thoughts many times before. But the parent comment made a good point: that money can be a powerful mechanism for shaping the world you want to see. I don't know the answer, but I will have time to think about it as I build out an income stream to support my living expenses.

Re: How I live on $7,000 per year

#95
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is clearly the "build it and they will come" bullshit. I had hoped the Hacker News crowd would be the first to recognize that demand doesn't just "appear."

Supply and demand are just two sides of the same coin. To Apple, the iPhone is supply. Apple supplies iPhones to meet consumer demand. But the iPhone is also Apple's demand. Its production of IPhones determines how much other things it will be able to buy. To consumers, the IPhone is something they want (demand). But their demand is determined by what they supply. A programmer ability to pay for (demand) an iPhone de…

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1551813

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2739027

Re: How I live on $7,000 per year

#96
post #25

Sorry, but this story is garbage. Rent/mortgage, retirement completely ignored. Plus he has the shittiest $82 health insurance plan he could find, and he doesn't calculate the costs of what will happen if he gets sick. On average people after 65 spend $2,920 per year on medical out of pocket expenses (Source: http://www.newretirement.com/Planning101/Rising_Medical_Cost... ) Then his food comes from his garden, which…

Then his food comes from his garden

Not all of it. You obviously missed the link in that article to his FAQ answering every objection you raised: http://earlyretirementextreme.com/frequently-asked-questions ...a max of $1200/yr on food

which means he has to work on that

Right. His point is that you don't need income, not that you don't need to work.

and he conveniently didn't calculate the opportunity costs

Zero if you like gardening.

tools

For gardening? Amortized over the life of the tool? Visit some estate sales and you can get set up for gardening like a pro for probably $50.

irrigation

You mean like a rainwater barrel + some old rubber hosing? You can make one of those for probably $10 in parts.

chemicals

Not necessary.

seeds

These come from the plants themselves. As in, free.

What about transportation costs

If you don't commute and ride an old bicycle (know how many of these people give away? and can be fixed for Anyway this is in the FAQ he linked to. $600/yr

electric/gas, phone

This is the first thing in the FAQ he linked to in that article: $3240 per year

internet

$240/yr he said

household supplies

Well, you found one thing he missed.

upgrade of your old computer, clothing, shoes

Did you miss where he said he has a 7-yr-old computer and keeps clothes for a long time (= very low amortized cost; probably $50/yr total for these things)

Then if you want to have a car

He covered this. $600/yr

don't pay property taxes,

Read the FAQ. He estimates a you could afford a $100k home on that budget. I've lived in one in an expensive state (RI), it was spacious.

no safety net in case of a serious sickness.

That's what savings are for. $3000 in savings and bam, you've covered your deductible.

TLDR: read the article and the FAQ.

Re: How I live on $7,000 per year

#97
post #89
post #65

When you have kids then you really live on $7000 per year. Believe me. So maybe when you are younger it is good enjoy a little because when middle age crisis comes (and it will come) and if you didn't enjoy when you were young all kind of crazy shit can happen. Happen to my father in-law: all his millions are worthless...

I'm confused -- why are your father-in-law's millions worthless?

Your parent comment meant that money is less enjoyable when you are not as young as you once were.

Re: How I live on $7,000 per year

#98
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually that is NOT at all what my argument is. My argument is that people can produce as much as they want, but you still need someone to consume your product. Just being productive gives you only the supply side, but what about demand, why make would make something when people do not demand it. Remember PG's rule: Make something that people want. Want is demand. You cannot make things without taken into contention…

> but you still need someone to consume your product Do we? We're not trying to make a lot of money, just enough to get by. And we're talking about an entire economy here, not about the profitability of an individual business. The whole point is that people in this model don't really care about how much money they're making (or, put another way, they place a very high value on their time). The question is whether the…

. . . they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid . . . --Micah 4:3b-4a

Re: How I live on $7,000 per year

#99
I agree with the author that there's much to be gained by shrugging off the consumerist expectation that we spend all of our income on junk. The next step in that progression though, in my opinion, is to learn to obsess over money exactly as much as is necessary, then start paying attention to what really matters in life. This guy's OCD approach to money sounds exhausting.

Re: How I live on $7,000 per year

#100
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, that's nitpicking. Make that 26k invested then. Also, you can reduce the taxes by diverting into an IRA. Also, after the first year, you can begin to add investment income on top of your regular income. This investment income will increase by about $1000 each year.

With those numbers $4K isn't nitpicking it's 10% of your net.

But 2-3% of my assets. I wouldn't get too hung up on the details. I didn't earn 40k every year. Some years were less. And some were more (see FAQ). I didn't live in New York.

Everybody can run their own spreasheets for their personal income and tax situation presuming an expense level of 6k/year. Figure an investment return of 3%+inflation (so 6% or so total). See what you get.

Post reply on HN