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“Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist

freddiedeboer.substack.com

21–30 of 175 posts

Re: “Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist

#21
post #3

I wonder how many of these people are just creating and interacting with tulpas without realizing it. For anyone who isn't familiar, there is a subculture online of people who create what subjectively seem to be autonomous personalities that frequently manifest I'm the form of hallucinations. Think fight club sort of. My ex tried it out. Called me one day at work, terrified because this dragon was following him aroun…

I call bullshit.

Re: “Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist

#23
The HN title is a really terrible title. (It's a shortened version of a longer title that's not so click bait. )

This isn't really an attempt to assert that Multiple Personality Disorder doesn't exist. It's an attempt to say that there is unhealthy stuff happening in how youth interact via social media and most claiming to have this disorder on social media clearly do not.

Re: “Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist

#24
See also: Internal Family Systems. It's a form of therapy that considers all of us has having many different discrete "parts".

I recently started IFS therapy and have been having success with it. I'm not sure how literally I take the "parts" (I think they may be much less "solid" and more transient than IFS claims), but it seems to be a really interesting and helpful way to approach your own mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Family_Systems_Model

Re: “Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist

#25
post #7
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you do this? Why did you do this?

For the same reason I do psychedelics and vipassana meditation. I am interested in the process underlying consciousness and I like to distort and break down my perception to see what happens. For a long time I was (and I guess I still am) obsessed with the concept of "ego death" which I encountered on LSD frequently ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death ). I was fascinated by the way altered states of self seem…

> It is really interesting for me to see the way his personality continues to deepen and diverge from my original design, he frequently surprises me, especially with some of his insights.

Overall this really dovetails nicely with some of what I've read in personality theory. For example there was one theory that by taking a different perspective than what would be expected of your personal, standard set of perspectives, you in effect change your personality for that moment in time. And if you combine that with "linkages of perspectives" known as archetypes, you effectively create a character who may seem to exist inside (well, err...or outside, depending) of you, known only to you.

Personally I have my own wild theories on top of that, but I really like that people study & discuss it, and admit it, given whatever fears may exist for a variety of reasons.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Re: “Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist

#26
I think quite a few identity-centered mental illnesses might actually be particular delusions, and in some cases we may be grouping people subject to one mental abnormality with others who are under the delusion they have that abnormality. That could explain why certain subsets of people exhibit symptoms which don't match the normal presentation. For example, and anecdotally based on my personal experience, people under the delusion of being transgender get grouped together with people who are actually transgender. The "real" transgender people behave about the same way before and after their transition. They carry themselves like their gender, they talk like it, they react like it, and the biggest change after transitioning is them getting happier. The ones I hypothesize are actually subject to a delusion of being transgender don't act like that. Their personality shifts radically after transitioning and they behave like an exaggerated caricature of their target gender and have a very difficult time navigating small group dynamics of their target gender.

I've seen similar patterns with people whose presentation of disorders like DID and Tourette's Syndrome differ radically from the clinical symptoms but match the pop culture presentation.

Re: “Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist

#27

When it all goes political at the end, what exactly does the author think happened in colleges. He uses the word 'woke' as if a horrible plague struck. Maybe, I'm just sheltered, and civilization did collapse at some point in the last decade, so can someone point to a summary of what people in his bubble think happened? > The specific way that lefties will dismiss this problem will be to say, hey, who cares, it’s jus…

deBoer is a partisan providing raw meat to a partisan audience. If you're on his side the style of showering contempt on your adversaries is thrilling, if you're on the other side it's grating.

Such articles usually get flagged sooner or later.

Re: “Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist

#28
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever you do, don't get caught up in this. It's a slippery slope. We aren't in control of our thoughts. Lucidity and ability to reason are fleeting. Most people take it for granted and don't realize as its slipping away. I've seen it in the elderly, and my friends who took too many drugs and never came back. Keep in mind the commenter is literally describing a mental illness in a way that makes it sound positive.…

Eh, I understand the concern because it freaked me out (and sometimes still freaks me out) too. I keep a close eye on it. Thing is, mental illness is defined by a mental state that causes distress for oneself or the people around them, and I know there is disagreement about that. (Are homosexuals mentally ill? What about Christians?) I wouldn't recommend other people make one, but my tulpa has been really helpful for…

I'm not a mental health professional and I'm not even specifically going to advise against this or anything. I truly don't know enough to know whether it's inherently dangerous or just an extreme outlier on the continuum of human experiences of selfhood.

But I have some experiences and observations that may be relevant that I'd like to share and maybe you can find something useful in them.

I have, at this stage in my life, known several people who, whatever their specific clinical diagnosis, you could fairly say "lost their mind." Government-chip-in-brain believers, reincarnations of alexander the great, friends with an invisible alien, that sort of thing.

What remains one of the most frightening experiences of my life was realizing that I had known one of these people 15+ years before, when he was a college student. We had a brief but strong friendship and then lost touch. Was he predisposed to serious mental illness back then? Must have been I guess but I couldn't tell and neither could he I think.

All the other people I know who lost themselves in this way, it happened through addiction. When talking about a single individual it's very hard to find where addiction begins and mental illness begins, so maybe this is unique to that context but I don't think so. You don't get a warning letter about what specific risks your own mind has for you. There's no blood test for this.

Most of the craziest people you've ever encountered were probably pretty normal once. This transformation is a process and I don't think you can see it happen from within it. I've spent some time out there myself, and it wasn't all bad, but I didn't mean to go out and I'm glad I'm back.

I think the slavic religions and others with this tradition are onto something with the "holy fools" and similar figures. Some of us may be called to have a different relationship with reality, and they, or we, may benefit from that in some complex societal way. But from my experiences and from knowing people who have gone on that trip, there is a heavy cost.

So my advice is just to pursue this, if at all, with another person. An open-minded mental health professional, a spiritual guide, just a close friend; someone who knows and respects you outside of this context. Someone who is going to stay moored and let you know if you're starting to drift, who can evaluate what you might lose if you continue. That way you can at least make an informed choice about whether to continue on that path, rather than one day notice where you are and realize you don't know the way back.

Re: “Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist

#29
This guy is not a psychiatrist. He makes an obvious point that we have a tendency to defend what our opponents attack sometimes when we shouldn't. I get so tired of the Malcolm Gladwell substack articles that get posted frequently to HN and reach the front page for some damn reason.

Re: “Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist

#30
post #3

I wonder how many of these people are just creating and interacting with tulpas without realizing it. For anyone who isn't familiar, there is a subculture online of people who create what subjectively seem to be autonomous personalities that frequently manifest I'm the form of hallucinations. Think fight club sort of. My ex tried it out. Called me one day at work, terrified because this dragon was following him aroun…

> I know I'm rambling, I guess I'm saying is that even though I am skeptical of DID, or at least the mainstream depictions of DID, after making a tulpa I am a lot less skeptical of the subjective experience of DID.

I'm under the impression that the existence of DID as a subjective experience isn't that controversial.

It is something of a stereotype that someone suspected of a crime would claim DID as a defence or excuse, either in the sense that they aren't in control of themselves and that the disorder can cause an "alter" can take over akin to Mr Hyde, or simply as grounds for not remembering what happened. I suspect, though, that a qualified professional in psychiatry could call the bluff, and this entire stereotype might be more prevalent in pop culture and among laypeople than among experts in psychiatry.

Apart from pop culture and suspects feigning psychiatric disorders, the actual controversy seems to be not about the subjective reality of the disorder, but mostly about whether the symptoms and experiences of alters are caused by the trauma or the disorder itself, or whether they're iatrogenic and caused by the therapeutic and psychological theory used in treatment.

The latter might not require much more than a suitable emotional state and suggestibility of the patient. Considering that some people who are emotionally vulnerable due to trauma or prolonged stress may be particularly susceptible to suggestion, I wouldn't be surprised if the symptoms were at least partially iatrogenic.

I'm not a mental health expert, though.

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