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Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search

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111–120 of 148 posts

Re: Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search

#111
post #44

So, in 2005 I was involved in a company that thought "man, it would be great to build a search engine for source code". I even started putting together components for it, such as a model for finding text inside of larger documents that had statistical properties similar to code, auto-detecting the language, so you could find code snippets inside of blog posts. However, by the time we got organized enough to actually…

Similar situation in 2007.

If anyone had any doubts, Google is the new MS. In the mid 90s, any time I talked to people with ideas for new ventures, the inevitable "how will MS play in that market?" question came up, and often killed ideas before or just as they were getting started. People had seen MS buy up companies then shelve things, or enter a market (whether they should have or not) and effectively take the competition out of it - no one wanted to compete with MS. Maybe they could get bought out, but competing would be hard, and investors would think twice before investing against MS. To the degree that it validated a market or idea, that was good, but they were too big for people to think they had a shot at competing.

Few people are afraid of MS, but Google seems to have replaced MS in that role - intentionally or not. When your goal is "organize information", almost any endeavour could fall under that heading. I don't think people are necessarily as afraid of Google as people were of MS 15-20 years ago, but the effect on many ideas - like saurik's - is the same outcome.

Re: Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search

#112

Really? "Google's mission is to organize the world's information" How is so when code search is going away? Google did excellent job at indexing the code, so why to throw away what's already working?

Maybe they don't believe in the Lisp notion that code is data.

Re: Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search

#113
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually agree with the point of your comment: GitHub, to take one of your examples, seems to be a profitable business model. My reaction in this context, however, is that I do not feel like Google is trying to figure out a business model of any kind for most of its products. To try to draw the difference, in the case of where Google offers free things, it seems to not have any relation at all to the things where i…

> In the case of GitHub, their pricing for people who want private repositories is brutal Well, I wouldn't call $7 (5 private repos, 1 private, oo public collaborators) to $20 a month (10 private repos, oo private collaborators, oo private collaborators) "brutal".

It's brutal when you think that if you made one giant repo they'd do it for almost nothing, but because you picked this other layout it could cost you $20-$50/month.

I want prices to be based on resource usage for the most part. If I've got a huge repo and I'm always using it, that would cost more. If I've got fifty tiny and essentially static projects then they'd be almost free to host. Give me non-arbitrary pricing and I'll be there.

Re: Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search

#114
If Google can't backup the resources required for Code-Search, then who will ? Just googled to see if any other code search service is available. It listed one more result other than the Google Code Search. Will koders.com remain alive. It will probably be a single. Lets hope, there will be someone backing up Koders.

Re: Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search

#115
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It costs money. The kind of people who use it probably have adblock installed. It's not surprising that they would cancel it, they are a company driven by profit after all. I don't think there is really much to explain. Maybe once it had utility as a way to earn good will among developers, but presumably they don't care too much about that these days, given how little competition and how much brand recognition they h…

>>It costs money. Then slap a Gogle Payments icon on the page and charge a dime per click. Or a nickel. They can make a pretty penny, no pun intended :)

As someone who routinely uses Google with AdBlock installed, I second this. For that matter, I would gladly pay Google a monthly fee to have unlimited search, if the "free" Google only had limited search. The fact that Google has chosen to make their money from advertisers instead of users like me is not my fault.

Re: Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search

#116
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the case of GitHub, their pricing for people who want private repositories is brutal Well, I wouldn't call $7 (5 private repos, 1 private, oo public collaborators) to $20 a month (10 private repos, oo private collaborators, oo private collaborators) "brutal".

It's brutal when you think that if you made one giant repo they'd do it for almost nothing, but because you picked this other layout it could cost you $20-$50/month. I want prices to be based on resource usage for the most part. If I've got a huge repo and I'm always using it, that would cost more. If I've got fifty tiny and essentially static projects then they'd be almost free to host. Give me non-arbitrary pricing…

I (have a private Github account. Let me echo something, "... when you think that if you made one giant repo they'd do it for almost nothing".

In other words, if my project was "open" Github would cost nothing. That's burtal.

Frankly I don't mind paying for repo services. I used Assembla for years. But then I moved away from svn. My problem is the price compared to all the free accounts. I (and all the other paying customers) are subsiding the open repos.

Now that's ok. I do gain from that, since I have several repos (projects) I follow and use. So it pays for itself in the long run. Sort of like public broadcasting. It's the same business model; I donate money every year to both PBS and NPR for the pleasure of tuning in. And I know the guy sitting in the car next to me blasting "Car Talk" probably didn't pay a dime.

But I"m ok with that. Really. (sic) :)

Re: Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search

#117
post #44

So, in 2005 I was involved in a company that thought "man, it would be great to build a search engine for source code". I even started putting together components for it, such as a model for finding text inside of larger documents that had statistical properties similar to code, auto-detecting the language, so you could find code snippets inside of blog posts. However, by the time we got organized enough to actually…

Similar situation in 2007. If anyone had any doubts, Google is the new MS. In the mid 90s, any time I talked to people with ideas for new ventures, the inevitable "how will MS play in that market?" question came up, and often killed ideas before or just as they were getting started. People had seen MS buy up companies then shelve things, or enter a market (whether they should have or not) and effectively take the com…

I think it's worse with Google, honestly. It might be that I simply wasn't able to analyze Microsoft much during their heyday (generally too young), and I'm not saying it is necessarily /much/ worse, but at least in the theory of this model I'm using, it certainly seems worse; like, I blame Google more for their actions than I do for Microsoft.

Microsoft wanted to win, and in so doing was brutal in their attempts to control things and take over segments of new markets; and when things do fail, they either doubled down or shut them down pretty quickly. They were a fierce competitor, but they actually wanted to make money.

Google, on the other hand, seems to just stumble around, kind of clumsily and seemingly even accidentally tripping over entire markets. At no point do they attempt to make money, and their involvement often seems trite: releasing something, and then never updating it again.

It's like no one at Google ever cared about making money with the new thing they launched, and sometimes they don't even seem to care if it "succeeds" or "fails": if you talk to them they kind of shrug the notion off as if they just wanted to build it, or maybe they needed it for Google internally and decided to let the world benefit from it.

The result is a ton of stuff that is nigh unto intentionally poorly maintained that, due to having access to Google's index, or Google's infrastructure, or simply Google's warchest, manages to be "the king of the market", despite any other shortcomings it has.

In fact, the only situation I can come up with quickly where this happened with Microsoft was Internet Explorer 6; where, for whatever reason, they seem to just stop working on the project. (You could then argue that, retrospectively, IE3-5 was "part of the problem" for being free, but I think that was actually "mostly ok"; I'd find the argument interesting, though.)

In comparison, Google has tons of projects (or at least did, before this year), where I've seen startups with "better stuff" get devoured by something for which I don't even see an attempt at a business model from Google (and then which they often never update again).

My favorite example is actually Google Voice, because some of the competition in that space is so good that they can actually convince people to buy it even though Google Voice is free; some have better transcription, some have better group features, and some are simply easier to use.

However, the price points are whack, as are the economies of scale; each of these players is playing in a tiny little market that almost no one will ever hear of, because their competitor (Google) is seriously just bleeding money: giving people phone numbers and forwarding arbitrarily long calls, for free.

(edit:)

Thinking about it more, Wave did seem to me quite a bit like Microsoft: a ton of companies I had seen that previously were looking at doing collaborative things heard that Google was releasing Wave "someday", decided "Google will win" and that to survice they needed to "interop", in so doing got involved in a beta program that lasted seemingly forever, and after it was actually on the market for a rather short period of time, Google scrapped the whole thing. But the effects of that were then only "a couple years", and during those years Google threw tons of marketing and engineering effort at the project; when Google did decide to exit, they did so rapidly: there was no "extended sunset period" where Wave continued to dominate "by accident". Wasteful? Yes. Annoying? Yes. Google Code or Voice level of unsustainable? No.

Re: Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search

#118
post #116
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's brutal when you think that if you made one giant repo they'd do it for almost nothing, but because you picked this other layout it could cost you $20-$50/month. I want prices to be based on resource usage for the most part. If I've got a huge repo and I'm always using it, that would cost more. If I've got fifty tiny and essentially static projects then they'd be almost free to host. Give me non-arbitrary pricing…

I (have a private Github account. Let me echo something, "... when you think that if you made one giant repo they'd do it for almost nothing". In other words, if my project was "open" Github would cost nothing. That's burtal. Frankly I don't mind paying for repo services. I used Assembla for years. But then I moved away from svn. My problem is the price compared to all the free accounts. I (and all the other paying c…

That's great (seriously: it is); however, I think it is then important to realize (for others) that GitHub's business model is closer to that of PBS than CBS: they are, in the long run, relying on the fact that they are doing the world a public good, and when competitors with enticing "fair" price points enter this space more powerfully, it will be interesting to see if they manage to "keep up the donation drives" enough to continue subsidizing the world's open source. (edit:) ...especially, to continue the additional point I have been bringing up in this thread, when this competitors are able to "outrun" GitHub, because they aren't carrying around that baggage: they can focus, intently, right where the profit is, allowing them to rip as much of it away from GitHub as they can.

Re: Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search

#119
post #115
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>It costs money. Then slap a Gogle Payments icon on the page and charge a dime per click. Or a nickel. They can make a pretty penny, no pun intended :)

As someone who routinely uses Google with AdBlock installed, I second this. For that matter, I would gladly pay Google a monthly fee to have unlimited search, if the "free" Google only had limited search. The fact that Google has chosen to make their money from advertisers instead of users like me is not my fault.

Yes its not your fault, but it's also not Google's fault. Your sense of entitlement is very surprising.

Re: Google Killing Off Buzz and Code Search

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too bad Google can't do the opposite of acquiring a company for things like this. Google Code was incredibly useful, it'll be sad to see it go.

Corporate spin-offs are very possible and are done frequently. The problem here is that Google Code Search wasn't independently profitable, so it wouldn't make sense to sustain it as an independent company. (I presume it was created to build goodwill for Google as a whole among coders.) As to whether any of the related assets are valuable to, say, another company who thinks they can make code search profitable, I don…

I'd guess that the main issue is that it's probably heavily coupled to the rest of Google's services. Their index, web crawler and general infrastructure would be vital to this product. If Google were to spin it off it would be useless without all these things.
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