Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S • Hacker News Board

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#51

Post by ALittleLight » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 5:26 PM UTC

CPLX wrote: post #42

ALittleLight wrote: post #39

I like to use "The Turner Diaries" as a kind of litmus test for people who don't want to ban books. I notice that, while all of the books this article calls out specifically are available at the Brooklyn Public Library - per their online catalog, "The Turner Diaries" is not and neither are any books by its author - either his real name or pseudonym. The Turner Diaries, for reference, is a white supremacist novel that…

But is it a book with literary value? There’s a lot of books in the world, why do you feel this one is essential for a library to stock?

"Literary value" is a hard thing to define. It's a famous book that has inspired (negative) real world events. It has comparable Google search traffic to "The Black Flamingo", one of the books listed in the article as being available, despite being written in 1978. It captures the thinking of an under represented group of people - by which I mean white supremacists, not the kind of "white supremacists" who think affirmative action is bad, but the kind who literally explicitly want to exterminate non-white people.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#52

Post by newbamboo » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 5:26 PM UTC

eatonphil wrote: post #15

tsol wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Id say it's very much the point. I agree this should be more widespread, but unfortunately since the motivation is based on disseminating banned books rather than simply increasing access across the country we won't see that. This is more of a culture war move than a move to vincrease access. Just because it effectively has a positive outcome, doesn't mean it's even close to ideal

I've read too much history to be an idealist about this kind of stuff. If any good change happens for any reason (that isn't seriously harming people) I'm happy about it.

But you should be empirical. Does this change meaningfully impact public literacy? If it helps even a few kids, that’s great. Let us see if this moves the needle. There are opportunity costs with public policy, and so we should try and try to be results oriented when deciding what constitutes “good change.” Look at all of the problems in the world right now which can be directly linked to frivolous and performative policy moves, made with little consideration for the actual impact they have. I will be, very pleasantly, surprised if this does anything more than sow greater cultural division in a hot election cycle.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#53

Post by thebigjewbowski » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 5:27 PM UTC

CPLX wrote: post #42

ALittleLight wrote: post #39

I like to use "The Turner Diaries" as a kind of litmus test for people who don't want to ban books. I notice that, while all of the books this article calls out specifically are available at the Brooklyn Public Library - per their online catalog, "The Turner Diaries" is not and neither are any books by its author - either his real name or pseudonym. The Turner Diaries, for reference, is a white supremacist novel that…

But is it a book with literary value? There’s a lot of books in the world, why do you feel this one is essential for a library to stock?

I’d say my main concern isn’t strictly “banning books” but open access to information.

How do you determine literary value? The catcher in the rye at least was considered risqué and had been banned. It isn’t some great novel unlike any other — it’s about a teenager complaining. Even still why ban it? Let people read.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#54

Post by meristohm » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 5:28 PM UTC

cato_the_elder wrote: post #2

If I had a teenager, I would've made sure they know about the great shadow library. [1] It has a few advantages: there are no wait-times for the ebooks, it has no agenda other than providing access to books, and it actually has the real banned books you almost certainly wouldn't find in a public library. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_Genesis

As part of a mental diet, to fill in availability-gaps in public libraries, this resource makes sense.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#55

Post by eatonphil » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 5:29 PM UTC

meristohm wrote: post #50

This article reminded me that library cards can be purchased by non-residents of the tax-base area served by that library (maybe this isn't universal, but the Brooklyn Public Library offers access for $50/year).

Wow that is awesome. Queens Public Library offers this too but to my astonishment NYPL does not. Here [0] is a list with a few around the US.

Apparently, Orange County Florida and Queens Public Library even offer library cards to people outside of the US.

[0] https://www.aworldadventurebybook.com/blog/libraries-with-no...

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#56

Post by klyrs » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 5:29 PM UTC

HelixEndeavor wrote: post #28

One of the books specifically cited is The 1619 Project, which if I am not mistaken was widely criticized even by professors for being a narrowsighted and completely ahistorical look at slavery in America.

In quite a few of the critiques I've read, it's described as a valuable perspective despite the ahistorical bits -- some of which have been corrected. Should the entire project be censored?

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#57

Post by bfgoodrich » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 5:30 PM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #39

I like to use "The Turner Diaries" as a kind of litmus test for people who don't want to ban books. I notice that, while all of the books this article calls out specifically are available at the Brooklyn Public Library - per their online catalog, "The Turner Diaries" is not and neither are any books by its author - either his real name or pseudonym. The Turner Diaries, for reference, is a white supremacist novel that…

No post body was provided.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#58

Post by klyrs » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 5:35 PM UTC

dankboys wrote: post #10

Quoted post unavailable.

The librarians I know think that even deliberate misinformation should be properly archived rather than disappeared. If you're experiencing cognitive dissonance here, please examine how the Twitterati and Librarians are different populations with different motivations and value systems.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#59

Post by temp8964 » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 5:36 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #44

dontcare007 wrote: post #34

Where banned=not paid for with public funds. Words have meanings. The books are still available, just not in schools.

I think this is being disingenuous because a library deciding not to buy a book is different than the executive or legislature saying that the library cannot buy a book. You are implying what is happening across the country in conservative states is the former when it is more often the latter. Choice is being removed from the people who run the libraries. They are the people who best know what books their communities…

Public school library != public library

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#60

Post by slg » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 5:39 PM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #51

CPLX wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is it a book with literary value? There’s a lot of books in the world, why do you feel this one is essential for a library to stock?

"Literary value" is a hard thing to define. It's a famous book that has inspired (negative) real world events. It has comparable Google search traffic to "The Black Flamingo", one of the books listed in the article as being available, despite being written in 1978. It captures the thinking of an under represented group of people - by which I mean white supremacists, not the kind of "white supremacists" who think affi…

>"Literary value" is a hard thing to define.

Which is why it should be decided by the people who run the libraries and not politicians. That is the difference between banning a book and a library choosing not to buy a book. Is the Turner Diaries banned or have libraries simply decided not to buy a copy?