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Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

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Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#171
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The power is used to secure the system, not to perform transactions. The transaction rate has always been the same, the power use has gone up with the value of the contents (to resist a 51% attack) Some people feel strongly this security is worth it. Some feel strongly that it isn’t (but one suspects their objection is really to the lack of central control)

To the extent that blocks are assembled and validated not by one node (which is all that would be necessary), but by (tens? hundreds? of) thousands, there is massive duplication of the actual work by a factor of 1e4 or 1e5 or more. But, you are right, even that enormous inefficiency is peanuts compared to the Proof of Waste, which ramps it up to unimaginable proportions. (A single BTC transaction uses up as much elec…

The transactions don’t use the power, the power is used to protect the contents of the chain

(sorry i intended this as a reply to a different comment, not yours, not sure how i did that!)

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've developed smart contracts, I'm surprised you don't consider the capability of trustless financial instruments (peer-to-peer lending and pooled lending, for example) to be pretty useful as well

If you’ve ever written code, and if you’ve ever written a bug, then you will understand that code as law is terrible idea, especially when it comes to finance.

A terrible idea, or just terrible in practice, and in particular with the current state of tooling and understanding etc.?

For every lawyer relishing a loophole there's surely another wishing for a more codified less ambiguous language than even Legalese English.

(I'm no cryptocurrency advocate, hold a small amount, have never written a 'smart contract', I just find it interesting and somewhat compelling. As an idea at least, yes I've written bugs.)

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've developed smart contracts, I'm surprised you don't consider the capability of trustless financial instruments (peer-to-peer lending and pooled lending, for example) to be pretty useful as well

If you’ve ever written code, and if you’ve ever written a bug, then you will understand that code as law is terrible idea, especially when it comes to finance.

^ you will understand that code as law is terrible idea, especially when it comes to finance.

Why are we relying on code for controlling Safety-critical system? e.g. Nuclear Reactors, Autopilot of aircrafts, docking of two separate free-flying space vehicles, and weapon of mass destruction launch and control machines. All of them use "code", is finance more critcal than systems which are kill capable.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the way, as far as I understand, git is an example of a private blockchain.

How so? With git, you have to manually resolve merge conflicts. With blockchain, the general point is to use PoW (or something equivalent) to automatically do a vote on which is the correct version. Isn't that also the case in a private blockchain?

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#175
I’ll paste what I wrote in https://cryptologie.net/#article_555

The simplest abstraction is to see cryptocurrency / blockchain / distributed ledger technology as a database running on a single computer. Everybody can access this database and there’s some simple logic that allows you to debit your account and credit someone else’s account. The computer has a queue to make sure transactions are processed in order.

Blockchains that support smart contracts allow for people to install programs to that computer, which will add a bit more logic than simply debiting/crediting accounts. Others can then just send transactions to this computer to make a function call to any program (smart contract) that was installed on the computer.

The cool thing really is that we’re all using the same computer with the same database and the same programs.

Now in practice, nobody would trust a single point of failure like that. What if the computer crashes, or burns in a fire? Distributed systems to the rescue! We use distributed system protocols to run the same database on many computers distributed around the world. These distributed system protocols effectively simulate a single database/computer so that a few computers failing doesn’t mean the end of the blockchain.

On top of that, we refuse to trust the computers that participate in this protocol. They could be lying about the balance in your account. We want the computers to police one another and agree on the database they are simulating. That’s where consensus protocols are used: to make the distributed database secure even when some of the participants are malicious.

And that’s it. That’s blockchain tech for you. The obvious application is money, as the secure and simulated single computer is useful to simplify a payment system, but really any distributed database that cannot trust some of its participants can benefit from the advances there.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#176

The sole purpose of blockchain is to prevent double spending without a trusted party Other proposed applications are mostly dumb / misguided, like immutable storage, social network posts, etc, these can be done with hashing or digital signatures alone If you have a better way to avoid double spending than blockchain folks woukd get very excited. Traditional database can’t do that (requires a trusted party)

I’ve read several technical, non-fluff books on the topic, and I’ve developed smart contracts on Ethereum for decent hourly wage (paid out in fiat). And I’ve still come to roughly the same conclusion as you. Either my reading comprehension is poor, or there is little actual value in the vast majority of blockchain applications. Digital cash, as defined in the Bitcoin whitepaper, still seems like the only real use cas…

> Digital cash, as defined in the Bitcoin whitepaper, still seems like the only real use case.

IMO the big breakthrough of crypto past bitcoin is that we figured out that cryptocurrencies can use money incentives to run other applications than just payments. People are doing all sorts if things, many scams but also many useful applications.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#177
post #43

Blockchain has no use other than to store tokens for speculative gambling. Take a look at this presentation - https://bit.ly/3OB5G18 Proof-of-work - the USP of blockchain makes it slow and expensive and planet destroying at scale. But it's not a bug, it's a feature. You take it out and the blockchain is neither public not permission-less. A private, trusted, permissioned blockchain is pointless. The whole blockchain,…

Where did you get the notion that the energy usage is planet destroying? Current Bitcoin usage is literally a rounding error of global energy usage (0.1%) and if wildly successful would still be https://www.lynalden.com/bitcoin-energy/

> Current Bitcoin usage is literally a rounding error of global energy usage

I'd say that BTC + ETC use up about 1% of world electricity. That is significant, given that the main value is to make a few miners rich ($50m a day).

> and won’t increase too much.

The energy usage (more precisely: the amount of money spent on energy and electro waste) is roughly proportional to BTC price, I posit (until the next halving), and so would go up dramatically if BTC went up dramatically (like 100x, as Peter Thiel suggested at Bitcoin 2022 in Miami recently).

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#178
post #161
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you have read the whole article that I have linked [0], did it say or mention anything about 'Bitcoin' being used for payments there? [0] https://stripe.com/blog/expanding-global-payouts-with-crypto

Bitcoin is flag bearer for crypto and the first one in the long line of crypto "currencies"

We both know that it is the first, but that doesn't answer my question as that is irrelevant to my question:

Did the article [0] say or mention anything about Stripe USING 'Bitcoin' for payments? [0]

Or have you just admitted that YOU haven't even bothered to read beyond the headline of the article or even my comment and just quickly rushed to reply with a predictable 'CRYpTO iS sCAm' comment?

[0] https://stripe.com/blog/expanding-global-payouts-with-crypto

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#179

The sole purpose of blockchain is to prevent double spending without a trusted party Other proposed applications are mostly dumb / misguided, like immutable storage, social network posts, etc, these can be done with hashing or digital signatures alone If you have a better way to avoid double spending than blockchain folks woukd get very excited. Traditional database can’t do that (requires a trusted party)

A database does this. The trusted party isn't eliminated by blockchain, because someone has to code the implementation of the software. Unless you checked the software for bugs or backdoors camouflaged as bugs and compile it yourself, you trust someone else. The trust 'problem' is overrated, because nothing in this world works without trust.

You’re wrong because you’re talking about database when we’re talking about distributed databases.
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