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Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

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Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#151

Post by ninkendo »

paulsutter wrote: post #19

The sole purpose of blockchain is to prevent double spending without a trusted party Other proposed applications are mostly dumb / misguided, like immutable storage, social network posts, etc, these can be done with hashing or digital signatures alone If you have a better way to avoid double spending than blockchain folks woukd get very excited. Traditional database can’t do that (requires a trusted party)

It tracks double spends of cryptocurrency on the blockchain, which is only as useful as the currency itself is.

Since BTC/ETH/etc is only “valuable” because of wild speculation and greater fools, the “value” part kind of collapses, leaving the “currency” aspect moot. Which brings us back to “no value”.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#152

Post by yashg »

kebman wrote: post #137

> there is nothing here more than you can get with traditional database technology? Here are some questions that you can test your hypothesis with: * Can you get distributed and trust-less settlement mechanisms with a centralized database? * Can you seamlessly send value across jurisdictions and closed borders without meddlers and middlemen with traditional database technology (regulation resistance and unconfiscatab…

>seamlessly send value across jurisdictions

I have money. How can I get some crypto? From a middleman. Need to pay fees. Then I send it to someone. Transaction fees. The receiver wants to buy groceries or pay kid's school fees, so they need to convert the crypto to money. Again fees.

So lots of middlemen and fees are involved. And most of the time, One would need to provide full KYC and need to have a bank account to convert to/from crypto.

Tell me more about how it is better, cheaper and faster than regular banking system.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#153

Post by stkdump »

paulsutter wrote: post #19

The sole purpose of blockchain is to prevent double spending without a trusted party Other proposed applications are mostly dumb / misguided, like immutable storage, social network posts, etc, these can be done with hashing or digital signatures alone If you have a better way to avoid double spending than blockchain folks woukd get very excited. Traditional database can’t do that (requires a trusted party)

A database does this. The trusted party isn't eliminated by blockchain, because someone has to code the implementation of the software. Unless you checked the software for bugs or backdoors camouflaged as bugs and compile it yourself, you trust someone else.

The trust 'problem' is overrated, because nothing in this world works without trust.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#154

Post by dageshi »

tsimionescu wrote: post #125
dageshi wrote: post #75

You're missing the fact that it enabled purely online/digital money people will actually use. You could build an online currency with a database much more easily than blockchain but people won't use it because it relies on a central authority to maintain the database and not enough people will trust that central authority not to misuse their power. It was tried a bunch of times in the past and never worked. Fundament…

People were using money online just fine well before Bitcoin, and even today, actually using BTC for non-investment purposes is a tiny minority. What exactly makes a dollar or euro less "online/digital" than a bitcoin?

Speed of iteration/development/experimentation. You can't fork EUR/USD, experiment with it and see if it works better than the existing EUR/USD. You can with online currencies and people are doing just that.

Most will be failures in the same way that most new businesses/startups are ultimately failures. BUT the difference is there is actual experimentation with money now in a way that there never was before.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#155

Post by andreskytt »

paulsutter wrote: post #19

The sole purpose of blockchain is to prevent double spending without a trusted party Other proposed applications are mostly dumb / misguided, like immutable storage, social network posts, etc, these can be done with hashing or digital signatures alone If you have a better way to avoid double spending than blockchain folks woukd get very excited. Traditional database can’t do that (requires a trusted party)

To be more precise, the nature of trust shifts. In case of a central database, one must trust the organization running the database. In case of blockchain you need to trust the math behind it, its implementation _and_ that the network structure preserves the assumptions the math makes. This might be preferable for some but not for others.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#156

Post by rvz »

yashg wrote: post #111
rvz wrote: post #79

So one of YC's finest and most valuable startup, Stripe that needs no introduction here, also thinks there is 'no value' in using it for payments then? Right then why did they announce this then? [0] Also just yesterday, a very low turn out in discussion about it [1], even less when they announced their Stripe Crypto post [2]. Why? Where is the scam? How exactly is Stripe scamming? Or is it because Stripe is spared s…

Crypto is scam. Some people at Stripe are trying to capitalize on the hype. We'll see how it goes. Something can't be both a currency as well as a speculative asset. Bitcoin was conceived as a currency. It promised fast transaction, low fees and no central trust provider authority like a government or a bank. But it and countless other cryptos have morphed into something people speculate on for gains. There is still…

Assuming you have read the whole article that I have linked [0], did it say or mention anything about 'Bitcoin' being used for payments there?

[0] https://stripe.com/blog/expanding-global-payouts-with-crypto

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#157

Post by kingkool68 »

lmohseni wrote: post #140
pcthrowaway wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've developed smart contracts, I'm surprised you don't consider the capability of trustless financial instruments (peer-to-peer lending and pooled lending, for example) to be pretty useful as well

If you’ve ever written code, and if you’ve ever written a bug, then you will understand that code as law is terrible idea, especially when it comes to finance.

Exhibit A https://twitter.com/0xfoobar/status/1517680400142716929?s=21...

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#158

Post by swalsh »

go_prodev wrote: post #89

Your post reminded me, I had a meeting with Amazon when they first started offering a Blockchain technology. The rep said they had implemented it, but didn't have a clear use case and were interested in seeing what customers might use it for. I've heard that Audi have a Blockchain to record car service history, so I believe we'll see more niche applications like that in future.

I could see smart contracts revolutionizing PBM's. There's so much infrastructure around looking for violations, auditing dumb contracts, and executing them etc. If the contract was a smart contract that the manufacturer, and payer, and retailer interact with the whole process would be easier, more reliable, and faster.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#159

Post by danieltanfh95 »

I was skeptical for many years until it sort of clicked. Blockchain is important because it allows us to solve the issue when a company providing a service goes bankrupt or closes off the service, the service stops being available. This is especially horrible when said service requires a social network to work.

We can't just say "let the users run the servers" because most users can't do that, thats why they trust centralised services. We need to split people to two groups of people: people who simply use a service, and people who can sustain a service.

I'm seeing a potential future where apps and services are run on separate, individual blockchains. It will work similarly like the Tor network except now the permissionless, decentralised network can hold *state*! I envision a world where people running the network can be incentivised within the service itself, this doesnt have even to be tied to fiat money, like "honor" or "trust".

Too bad the current crypto community isn't exploring this much yet, because there's a few cryptographic problems thats yet to be solved, but I see people also trying like this : https://github.com/stellar/slingshot

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#160

Post by ZeroGravitas »

mypastself wrote: post #110
paulsutter wrote: post #19

The sole purpose of blockchain is to prevent double spending without a trusted party Other proposed applications are mostly dumb / misguided, like immutable storage, social network posts, etc, these can be done with hashing or digital signatures alone If you have a better way to avoid double spending than blockchain folks woukd get very excited. Traditional database can’t do that (requires a trusted party)

I’ve read several technical, non-fluff books on the topic, and I’ve developed smart contracts on Ethereum for decent hourly wage (paid out in fiat). And I’ve still come to roughly the same conclusion as you. Either my reading comprehension is poor, or there is little actual value in the vast majority of blockchain applications. Digital cash, as defined in the Bitcoin whitepaper, still seems like the only real use cas…

But even 'digital cash' doesn't need this, for most definitions and use cases.

Even if we're talking about smuggling money out of authoritarian regimes, or buying soft drugs, or hiring hitmen online, I'm not sure it makes any actual sense compared with alternatives.

Feels like a way for people who've been convinced that government doesn't work to feel like they're re-inventing government with extra steps, mixed with a cult/mlm/ponzi scheme.

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