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Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

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Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#11

Post by NicoJuicy »

TekMol wrote: post #5

The value of blockchains seem so obvious to me, that I wonder if OP can be genuine. ask_111: How can having a public log that is extremely tamper resistant not have value? Let's look at a concrete example: Bitcoin. You can write something into the Bitcoin blockchain and be very sure that the information you wrote into it will stay there pretty much forever. Is that enough, or do we also have to discuss why having suc…

> You can write something into the Bitcoin blockchain and be very sure that the information you wrote into it will stay there pretty much forever.

Slower than a database and hard to migrate. Check

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#12

Post by sriram_malhar »

TekMol wrote: post #5

The value of blockchains seem so obvious to me, that I wonder if OP can be genuine. ask_111: How can having a public log that is extremely tamper resistant not have value? Let's look at a concrete example: Bitcoin. You can write something into the Bitcoin blockchain and be very sure that the information you wrote into it will stay there pretty much forever. Is that enough, or do we also have to discuss why having suc…

> How can having a public log that is extremely tamper resistant not have value?

Because achieving that tamper resistance the blockchain way is so energy-intensive that it has no value for me.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#13

Post by ak_111 »

hestefisk wrote: post #8

As with most things, I think the answer isn’t black or white. DLT has some use. It’s not useless. It’s not here to revolutionise computing or banking. But it has some value such as with trust-less computation tasks.

I agree with this sentiment, I am not calling it useless. In fact I think it makes perfect sense as an "experimentalist technology", it is just the disproportionate attention it is getting by serious people over a long period of time that I find most baffling ("blockchain to fight climate change/ improve vaccination/ ease supply chain bottlenecks/ destroy oligarchs")

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#14

Post by yokoprime »

TekMol wrote: post #5

The value of blockchains seem so obvious to me, that I wonder if OP can be genuine. ask_111: How can having a public log that is extremely tamper resistant not have value? Let's look at a concrete example: Bitcoin. You can write something into the Bitcoin blockchain and be very sure that the information you wrote into it will stay there pretty much forever. Is that enough, or do we also have to discuss why having suc…

Why is it better than cryptographic signatures using certificates?

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#15

Post by ryanobjc »

A centralized database of fungible and useful assets is going to eventually be hacked. Just ask OKTA about that.

Whereas there is no central point of hack for a well designed and tested blockchain. Distributed custody in an adversarial environment with mutual trust and dis-trust.

Yes it's not everything, but tradfi solutions are not 150% bulletproof either - they may only seem that way to the outside, but there are massive hazards lying just under the surface waiting to blow up. See: GME settlement risk end of Jan 2020.

EDIT: I used to be a huge skeptic of Eth and smart contracts. But I knew basically nothing about how they actually worked in practice. I learned a lot more and now I am a big believer.

The reality is you just likely do not know enough. Your skepticism of the space prevents you from learning and seeing the value that's sitting right in front of your eyes. You also have baked in presumptions that existing systems are somehow... workable or great, when they are not.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#16

Post by ak_111 »

rebuilder wrote: post #10
ak_111 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree that tamper proof log is very useful, but I don't believe that it is something you can't achieve using traditional database tech. I have a question for you that can short-circuit our discussion. You claim that the value is "so obvious" to you, why then one decade in there isn't one serious application of blockchain in the real world (not even in the dark web with early adpaters)? I mean a workflow that has…

Selling illicit goods seems to have been transformed by Bitcoin.

A bit of contentious point but I want to distinguish between bitcoin blockchain and blockchain tech.

Even as a bitcion skeptic, its market cap went from $0 to $1T and you can't argue with that. But circa 2012 people started marketing blockchain as an independent technology that can solve all sort of problems. This is the bit I have issues with, there hasn't been a single successful use case sense.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#17

Post by anotherhue »

Public writable block chains seem to be a dead end due to the cost of 'proof of x' in any Sibyl safe way.

Private blockchains, such as for cross company account clearances, complex asset exchanges (planes, land) may help dislodge the rent seeking lawyers.

They can be publically readable also which could be useful, e.g. For querying a land registry.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#18

Post by gls2ro »

TekMol wrote: post #5

The value of blockchains seem so obvious to me, that I wonder if OP can be genuine. ask_111: How can having a public log that is extremely tamper resistant not have value? Let's look at a concrete example: Bitcoin. You can write something into the Bitcoin blockchain and be very sure that the information you wrote into it will stay there pretty much forever. Is that enough, or do we also have to discuss why having suc…

How is that something good except from a pure technical perspective?

It is so obvious that we should not have records that cannot be deleted. Specially when talking about freedom. It seems to strange to me that supporters of blockchain talk about freedom while also saying that you can put up records that cannot be deleted.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#19

Post by paulsutter »

The sole purpose of blockchain is to prevent double spending without a trusted party

Other proposed applications are mostly dumb / misguided, like immutable storage, social network posts, etc, these can be done with hashing or digital signatures alone

If you have a better way to avoid double spending than blockchain folks woukd get very excited. Traditional database can’t do that (requires a trusted party)

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#20

Post by armada651 »

A lot of people pushing Blockchain technology have a vested interest in making it a more pervasive technology. Because Blockchain applications drive up the value of their crypto assets and offer more opportunities for speculation using crypto.

Blockchain applications don't necessarily need to use existing cryptocurrencies. However in that case you need to find some other incentive to get people to mine your blockchain, which is hard. And consequently having a small mining pool makes you vulnerable to a 51% attack defeating the entire purpose of a "tamper-proof" log. Thus it's easier to just use Ethereum, which in turn drives up demand for that cryptocurrency.

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