Ask HN: Are there any rural tech communities? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Are there any rural tech communities?

#241

Post by atourgates » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 3:46 AM UTC

sophacles wrote: post #43

Joey21 wrote: post #11

Why not look to small towns around state universities? Also, in the USA, look for micropolitan towns. Places that aren't tiny, but aren't major metro areas along with those kinds of challenges. Smaller towns can be easier places to afford homes, shorter distances to truly rural places. The people can be - not always though - challenging. May be more conservative politically and culturally. May be resistant to progres…

Seconded - I live in a university town in the Midwest (usa). Several big tech companies have offices in town. The university itself employs a lot of tech folks, and spawns startups. There are also a few smaller/medium tech firms that are local. On a normal day, you're never more than 15 minutes drive from farm fields, and quite a few tech workers live out in the country and drive into town occasionally or daily for w…

I grew up in a college town (3 small colleges, in an area with 40k people) and now live in a university town (30k people, state university).

You get the benefits of rural life, but your neighbors are more likely to be open minded and progressive, and you tend to get more culture, better schools and the restaurants are generally better.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any rural tech communities?

#242

Post by TulliusCicero » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 3:47 AM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #211

TulliusCicero wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. It's bizarre how often you see people arguing as if a lack of rural or farm subsidies would suddenly mean food disappearing.

Consider this scenario: 1. The US drops all agricultural subsidies and tariffs. 2. The US begins importing most of its food from elsewhere. 3. "Elsewhere" goes to war with a US ally and stops selling food to the US. 4. The US then wishes it hadn't given up its abilty to grow food.

> 2. The US begins importing most of its food from elsewhere

Gonna stop you there. This wouldn't happen, because the US has plenty of growing acreage and plenty of demand. The farming industry doesn't need subsidies, and removing them would affect total output only slightly on average.

Now, if we were more like Japan and had issues with enough space for farming, then yeah I'd agree with you.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any rural tech communities?

#243

Post by gameswithgabe » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 3:49 AM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #193

mdasen wrote: post #48

> I've heard that people tend to be very different to those you find in a city In a lot of cases this is true - and it's not just about tech. Rural communities are often more religious, more conservative, lower income, lower educated, and have a lot less access to opportunity. Cities also mean that there's often a critical mass for many interests and minority groups. Are you LGBT? Are you a religious or racial minori…

You're getting a lot of very bad comments in opposition, which is unfortunate. A lot of people have no trouble being clear-eyed about the downsides for big cities -- expensive, crowded, lots of traffic, can be hyper-competitive, people are ruder or more indifferent, child unfriendly, more hostility to conservatism/religiosity, etc. -- but get offended when someone is equally clear-eyed about rural areas. I'm guessing…

I don't think the parent comment is getting bad comments in opposition because people aren't "clear-eyed about rural areas". I think it's more likely because the parent comment lists all of the attributes of urban areas in a positive tone and all the attributes of a rural area in a negative tone. I think most people are well balanced in their opinions on urban vs. rural life, and realize there are pros and cons to both. It would have been nice if the parent comment listed a well balanced opinion instead of a heavily one sided opinion.

And maybe I'm misinterpreting the parent comment as well and I feel like the comments about rural areas were negative because of my bias. That could be the case, but I'm inclined to believe that the parent comment was quite biased in favor of urban areas.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any rural tech communities?

#244

Post by TZubiri » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 3:50 AM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #180

engineer_22 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd argue you need to think about climate change and whether the US will continue to subsidize rural life. Not to fault you, but you're a seriously urban-centric thinker. Rural productivity is vital to urban concentration. Raw material does not come from the depths of the subway system, nor do the land and seaports magically produce goods. Food, fiber, fuel, etc come from the rural reaches. Flip this on it's head an…

> Rural productivity is vital to urban concentration. Raw material does not come from the depths of the subway system, nor do the land and seaports magically produce goods. Food, fiber, fuel, etc come from the rural reaches. We pay a premium to buy food from the rural US in the form of common import tariffs that stifle or eliminate competition at the expense of the consumer and to the benefit of agricultural interest…

So the US would stop producing food and import it instead?

First, why? Second, from an ecological perspective this wouldn't change anything, just shift shit around.

Ridiculous, stop.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any rural tech communities?

#245

Post by refurb » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 3:50 AM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #231

refurb wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing if it's a subsidy , I'm arguing who benefits . You can't grow enough food for a city within city limits. So if a subsidy goes to a rural area to grow food, that's not a subsidy for rural people , that's a subsidy for everyone .

As I already said, it's a subsidy for everyone on the consumer side, and a subsidy for that industry (which is located in rural areas, largely) on the producer side. And the benefit is debatable. Yes, it lowers prices a tiny bit, but you could lower all kinds of costs through government producer subsidies, and yet not all of those would be of great or even net benefit.

Glad we agree then!

Re: Ask HN: Are there any rural tech communities?

#246

Post by TulliusCicero » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 3:51 AM UTC

gameswithgabe wrote: post #243

TulliusCicero wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting a lot of very bad comments in opposition, which is unfortunate. A lot of people have no trouble being clear-eyed about the downsides for big cities -- expensive, crowded, lots of traffic, can be hyper-competitive, people are ruder or more indifferent, child unfriendly, more hostility to conservatism/religiosity, etc. -- but get offended when someone is equally clear-eyed about rural areas. I'm guessing…

I don't think the parent comment is getting bad comments in opposition because people aren't "clear-eyed about rural areas". I think it's more likely because the parent comment lists all of the attributes of urban areas in a positive tone and all the attributes of a rural area in a negative tone. I think most people are well balanced in their opinions on urban vs. rural life, and realize there are pros and cons to bo…

It's a word of caution about rural areas. If you were cautioning someone about moving from a farm to the big city, you'd do the same thing with mostly listing negatives of big cities. I see this all the time in discussion of FAANG and the big tech hubs, people talking about the various downsides (which, to be sure, are many).

And if you look at the comments in response, a lot of them are obviously offended and throwing out misinformation and straw men. They're very bad comments from people either not thinking clearly or arguing disingenuously.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any rural tech communities?

#247

Post by TulliusCicero » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 3:55 AM UTC

hunterb123 wrote: post #240

TulliusCicero wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of posters here aren't interested in discussing the actual data. They're personally offended, and responding off of that.

Go ahead and source the data and we'll discuss it.

That rural areas are more conservative, less educated, poorer, and more religious on average, etc. is well known. I can provide the data if this is an earnest request, but I'm guessing you're already aware of these things, so I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

If someone is arguing against a generally well understood fact -- like, saying that North Korea is richer than the US -- it's on them to support it. They're not doing that here, because the facts aren't on their side.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any rural tech communities?

#248

Post by DubiousPusher » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 3:55 AM UTC

majormajor wrote: post #207

engineer_22 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd argue you need to think about climate change and whether the US will continue to subsidize rural life. Not to fault you, but you're a seriously urban-centric thinker. Rural productivity is vital to urban concentration. Raw material does not come from the depths of the subway system, nor do the land and seaports magically produce goods. Food, fiber, fuel, etc come from the rural reaches. Flip this on it's head an…

Rural communities are providing a subsidy to urban communities by ... selling them things? Isn't "charging money for" just about the opposite of subsidizing? Food is necessary; that does not mean that the US's rural communities in their current form are all necessary or even that they're unsubsidized. Food is an incredibly substitutable market, you'd expect the market to push prices down to a minimum.

This isn't as clear cut as you are making it. A lot of infrastructure haa pushed the price of food down. As prices go down, so do margins. Making a living as a farm hand has better margins without the interstate highway system for example.

The supposed "subsidies" to rural areas are the cost of creating the low prices which cities also reap a lot of benefit from. You in fact could not easily substitute rural monoculture for something else. Not at today's prices.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any rural tech communities?

#249

Post by 015a » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 4:09 AM UTC

mdasen wrote: post #48

> I've heard that people tend to be very different to those you find in a city In a lot of cases this is true - and it's not just about tech. Rural communities are often more religious, more conservative, lower income, lower educated, and have a lot less access to opportunity. Cities also mean that there's often a critical mass for many interests and minority groups. Are you LGBT? Are you a religious or racial minori…

> we're going to get serious about climate change, will that mean $10 gas? Even with electric cars, the cost will increase. Will we continue to spend a fortune on roads and other accommodations for rural life?

I've heard this take before, and I find it wild. Sure, in terms of tax revenue; cities subsidize rural areas. But cities also could not exist without rural areas. Where is food grown? Where does large manufacturing happen? Chemical processing? Mining? Oil? Solar & wind farms?

If you want to talk about sustainability; from an ecological perspective; cities are insanely unsustainable. Talk about tax revenue, service work, mind work; sure cities dominate. But the balance flips when we start talking about real, tangible economic output. And moreover, if we're talking about global warming, as you have; I think that matters. I don't think there's a reality where US leadership forgets how critical its rural economic base is to surviving the water and food wars.

I've lived in a lot of cities and rural areas. Public infra is just bad, everywhere. This isn't a situation where "oh the big cities have so much tax revenue, their streets are amazing and the wow the schools, healthcare is perfect and" nah. Its bad everywhere. You'll stumble across random counties in the middle of nowhere with hundreds of miles of the best roads you've ever driven on. You'll drive into a city of two million people and the roads look like a war happened yesterday. Its money. Its corruption. Its historical socioeconomic forces. Its a ton of different variables; density can be one, but go to any major US city and look up the best school systems. They're rarely inside the dense city; they're in that rich, less dense suburb 45 minutes outside the city. Density is correlated; but very poorly.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any rural tech communities?

#250

Post by freyr » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 4:13 AM UTC

mdasen wrote: post #48

> I've heard that people tend to be very different to those you find in a city In a lot of cases this is true - and it's not just about tech. Rural communities are often more religious, more conservative, lower income, lower educated, and have a lot less access to opportunity. Cities also mean that there's often a critical mass for many interests and minority groups. Are you LGBT? Are you a religious or racial minori…

> there are plenty of locations with very few people that might be an hour from a city like Boston. Boxborough, MA is an hour from Boston while covered in forest. I'd think of it as "suburban", but it might the rural/pastoral feel you're looking for while still being within commutable distance to everything.

This is a good bet. There are many towns in the vicinity of cities where houses are spread out and you have a rural feel, even if it’s not strictly rural. Often they are inhabited by people who can afford to move out of the city, or just want more space. On average, people are educated and have decent incomes, as opposed to many cities, where you often get extremes of poverty and wealth and an eroded middle class.