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Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

theguardian.com

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Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#171

Post by lostlogin »

sofixa wrote: post #165
lostlogin wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure that burning a flag is as reprehensible an act to everyone - it seems like something that would get people fired up a century ago. I was under the impression that incitement to violence or encouraging suicide was not protected, but I am very far from expert. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_ex... Edit: Freedom of speech does not include the right: To incite imminent lawless actio…

> To make or distribute obscene materials That's one of the stupidest ones IMHO. Free speech absolutists harping about how great the US is in that regard forget to mention that speech is okay when it's money, insulting people for their skin colour and a bunch of other edge cases most other developed countries disagree with, but heavens forbid boobs!

Oh, I’d assumed it was something more subversive than a nipple.

Puritans…

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#172

Post by lostlogin »

vharuck wrote: post #133
gautamdivgi wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US doesn’t limit speech. Private platforms are self censoring. It has even upheld the right of citizens to burn the flag [0](reprehensible as it might be in the view of the majority). 0. https://www.uscourts.gov/educational-resources/educational-a...

US law permits restrictions on speech, but only in very specific cases for very good reasons. For example, gag orders during court proceedings are temporary limitations on speech meant to ensure a fair trial. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/gag_order And obviously, any speech that is intrinsically part of another crime would be punishable (e.g. telling somebody you're from the IRS so you could steal their return).

> US law permits restrictions on speech, but only in very specific cases for very good reasons.

Does it?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethel_School_District_v._Fr...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_v._California

This one is partially overturned as it is argued to have been used to punish ideas: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#173

Post by throwaway38471 »

Throwaway0988 wrote: post #145

As an Indian, the situation is a bit more complicated than what the article frames it as. Religion (and caste) have always been a sensitive issue, to the extent that there are multiple laws preventing people from "inciting" others (and yes, these laws are often abused by whichever government happens to be holding power, including the ones before the current government) - this is especially true for public figures lik…

Let me try to politely address each of your point one by one:

Its unconstitutional and abuse of power whether current government did it or previous government did it.

We can name it anything; "arrest", "detention" or a "trip to Disney". But it does not change the meaning when police takes you away.

Do you think India's law & order system is so weak that they have to arrest a lawmaker and take him to a far corner of country because of a tweet? And they made the whole country safe by arresting a lawmaker?

Its really surprising that either you don't you know that Municipal Corporation of Capital of India (Delhi) is not run by BJP government (the ruling party) or you conveniently shared false information with HN. [1]

Not only that, its the ruling party of India who is delaying the planned 2022 Delhi Municipal Corporation election because they fear their defeat.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipal_Corporation_of_Delhi [2] https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/delhi/mcd-polls-del...

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#174

Post by throwaway38471 »

hef19898 wrote: post #132
mayankkaizen wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me tell you my anecdotal experience. Modi came in power in 2014 and till than I was BJP (Modi's party) supporter. Then I began to see how dangerous Modi is to society as a whole. In short, he is modern, complex sophisticated version of Nazi ideology. He carefully raised an army of hindu rightwing members who are bigots, intolerant and full of hate. He doesn't belive in democracy, freedom of speech, human rights,…

That's right from the Nazi playbook, and extremely scary...

And PM of India also does a regular monologue which is broadcasted across all govt news channels, radio stations, translated to multiple languages, sent through mobile app of govt/pm. They even spam you on your emails if you ever used your email to deal with govt services.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mann_Ki_Baat

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#175

Post by stjohnswarts »

koshergweilo wrote: post #3

I admit I'm not super familiar with India's freedom of speech, is this a backslide or has it always been like this?

I was curious about this myself and wondering if Modi is on his way to being the next Putin/Xi and declaring himself dictator for life.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#176

Post by stjohnswarts »

vkou wrote: post #93
leephillips wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along with several others of his works, and tons of other books, such as The deVinci Code . For various reasons such as being “poorly researched”. Here is a list of over 50 banned books: https://sflc.in/read-me-not-list-banned-books-india But there are others. This is not a democracy.

Why do you assume a democracy can't censor? All that a democracy is is a form of government where people elect some part of the legislature and the executive. If the electorate wants censorship, then the electorate will get censorship. If the electorate doesn't care much either way about censorship, but the people they elect do, then they will get censorship.

Also pure democracies don't really exist. for example the US is a democratic republic and the bill of rights has (until recently) stopped a lot of companies, people, and state governments from running over the rights of an individual to speak their mind (or religion or whatever) without fearing reprisal from the government. I'm afraid with the far right SCOTUS that we have currently though those individual rights are likely to be taken away to allow more police actions in our country as republicans increasingly push to remove hard won civil, racial, and gender equality rights.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#177

Post by unmole »

muzaffarpur wrote: post #167
shasts wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Majority of Indians IT professionals or majority who has attended college in India are upper caste folks, the main supporters of current ruling party. So the trend is not surprising. Many of them migrated to West and continue to do the same caste things even in silicon valley. Google the Cisco caste discrimination incident.

I doubt it. On an average around 70% of seats are reserved (affirmative action) for lower caste students. The difference of admission cutoffs is like day and night. I wouldn't be surprise that people from upper caste don't feel particularly well, for being lawfully, indefinite discrimination. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservation_in_India

> On an average around 70% of seats are reserved (affirmative action) for lower caste students.

In which alternate reality?

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#178

Post by stjohnswarts »

formerkrogemp wrote: post #18
danamit wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it will be different from Twitter and YouTube comments, sad to see Indian IT professionals being part of that too.

It's only less pronounced for American IT professionals defending the US reputation as y'all have more of a contrarían streak. I think if anything Americans online are more prone to criticize their own country than other places specifically because we have decent freedom of speech.

... for now. The right wing SCOTUS is likely to begin upholding racist, sexist, and political decisions as okay in republicans states, they (the 5 far right members) have made no qualms about putting out feelers for such cases in the past, we are just beginning to see how bad it's going to get with challenges to Roe v. Wade (soon to be completely upended), voters rights, and various other cases in the pipeline

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#179

Post by shasts »

muzaffarpur wrote: post #167
shasts wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Majority of Indians IT professionals or majority who has attended college in India are upper caste folks, the main supporters of current ruling party. So the trend is not surprising. Many of them migrated to West and continue to do the same caste things even in silicon valley. Google the Cisco caste discrimination incident.

I doubt it. On an average around 70% of seats are reserved (affirmative action) for lower caste students. The difference of admission cutoffs is like day and night. I wouldn't be surprise that people from upper caste don't feel particularly well, for being lawfully, indefinite discrimination. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservation_in_India

The Wikipedia link is correct, but you are only seeing one side.

Getting into engineering schools requires coaching, which majority can't afford. Second, surviving there requires additional skills that state board educated Dalits and lower castes don't have.

You can Google for the number of Dalits and lower castes really getting admitted or finishing the course.

https://qz.com/india/2001747/iit-kharagpur-professor-abusing...

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#180

Post by mayankkaizen »

muzaffarpur wrote: post #169
mayankkaizen wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until 2014, BJP was the only democratic party in India which wasn't run by a authoritarian person. Current BJP is now the most authoritarian party where Modi-Shah call the shots. Can you name even a single person who is critical of Modi and still is in BJP? Who opposed ANY decision of Modi government? If you think Gandhi dynasty was corrupt then why Modi wasn't able to put them in jail? Why didn't he press any charge…

Question is, if Modi is culprit, why he is not in jail. Congress was in power for atleast 5 years or so, post Godhara. That's how the country is. There is no rule of law and for sure there was never rule of law for politicians). If you have lived in India, you would know there is no difference in Modi or Congress or anyone else. Politicians are gangsters. Modi has done what congress did early. Congress consolidated M…

Fundamentally they are same but their depth of crimes aren't same. Congress did appease minorities but it never was like 'let us kill all muslims'. Fundamentally and ideologically, congress is neither anti hindu or anti muslim. However BJP/RSS has always been ideologically against muslims. It is in their blood. It is the party of religious bigots. If you read the history of RSS, you'll find RSS was established not to fight british but to fight muslims.

There has always been riots in India. But 2 incidents - 1984 sikh massacre and 2002 gujarat genocide stand out. Why? Because these two were STATE SPONSORED. That is big point here. However, unlike BJP, Congress wasn't arch-enemy of Sikhs. After 1984, congress didn't do anything to hurt sikhs. They even kind of apologized for that. But BJP? It has always been anti-muslims (although Vajpayee wasn't pro violence) and under Modi regime, covert genocide of muslims is going on strongly.

As for Godhra, it wasn't merely against Hindus. It was against the right-wing hindu extremists who demolished Babri masjids. Subtle but important difference. Being Hindu is one thing. Being anti-muslim Hindu extremist is another.

And what happened to culprits of Godhra incident? They all are in jails. What happened to 2002 culprits? They are running the country and they have upped the game of muslim genocide. And that is why we are even having discussion here.

The extent of crimes of BJP and congress aren't same. They both are ugly but BJP is evil personified.

I am Hindu and all my family members and friends are staunch BJP supporters. And yet as Modi opponent, I feel scared. A hindu is scared of criticising Modi. That has never been the case during Congress. Even in 1975, people were able to oppose Indira Gandhi but that is unimaginable now.

And I am saying this as someone who has been hardcore member of RSS for all my life. I am now 44 yr old and I started to drift away from RSS/BJP since Modi came into scene.

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