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Ask HN: Should I move from the U.S. to work in the EU?

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Ask HN: Should I move from the U.S. to work in the EU?

#1

Post by swe_throwaway_3 »

Currently been struggling with some career/life decisions and would potentially like some input from others who may have been in a similar experience!

Currently in my 20s working as a software engineer for a U.S. based company. I have always wanted to work in France, primarily because I want to experience a new culture & way of life (And become more fluent in french).

The one thing holding me back is the salary differences between French and U.S. companies: I currently make $100k+ a year, but offers from France-based companies have been around €55k.

This salary is enough to live well in France, but I feel like I'd be saving a lot less money if I moved abroad. If I ever wanted to move back to the U.S. and buy a home, I'd be in a much worse position than if I had just stayed in the first place. It almost feels like I'd be committing myself to Europe if I wanted to have a good retirement.

For those who may have made a similar move, is the experience worth the potential negative financial consequences?

Re: Ask HN: Should I move from the U.S. to work in the EU?

#3

Post by jstx1 »

Your career and finances would be taking a big hit so you'd better be getting something very good out of it on some other dimension. I wouldn't do it but I'm not strongly motivated by things like experiencing new cultures - I would maybe go on a holiday there if I really like it, not move my entire life there.

Re: Ask HN: Should I move from the U.S. to work in the EU?

#4

Post by d--b »

Salaries in France are indeed much lower, because

1. We are producing an awful lot of good engineers (thanks to Napoleon),

2. Investors are much more risk averse than in the US in general, so there is much less money to grab.

3. Cost of living is a lot cheaper

What you may consider is working from France for a US based company (I am doing this). You will pay what will look like an awful amount of taxes. But these taxes are mostly health insurance, and if you factor all in it'd be cheaper for your company to employ you freelance, and you'd get more money after tax + health insurance than if you'd stayed in the US + your lifestyle would be better than NY/SF.

Setting up the self employment thing in France is a huge pain in the ass, especially if you're paid in dollars. But if you pay an accountant, it'll be fine.

If you want to experience new cultures, just do it now, or you'll regret it later. France is a beautiful and fun country to live in. Don't let your career / retirement fears get in the way.

Re: Ask HN: Should I move from the U.S. to work in the EU?

#6

Post by june_twenty »

d--b wrote: post #4

Salaries in France are indeed much lower, because 1. We are producing an awful lot of good engineers (thanks to Napoleon), 2. Investors are much more risk averse than in the US in general, so there is much less money to grab. 3. Cost of living is a lot cheaper What you may consider is working from France for a US based company (I am doing this). You will pay what will look like an awful amount of taxes. But these tax…

Napoleon?

Re: Ask HN: Should I move from the U.S. to work in the EU?

#7

Post by mulcyber »

june_twenty wrote: post #6
d--b wrote: post #4

Salaries in France are indeed much lower, because 1. We are producing an awful lot of good engineers (thanks to Napoleon), 2. Investors are much more risk averse than in the US in general, so there is much less money to grab. 3. Cost of living is a lot cheaper What you may consider is working from France for a US based company (I am doing this). You will pay what will look like an awful amount of taxes. But these tax…

Napoleon?

Not sure it's true that we train that many engineers or that it's because of Napoleon, but most prestigious schools (in particular in Engineering) where created during his reign.

Re: Ask HN: Should I move from the U.S. to work in the EU?

#8

Post by mulcyber »

French salaries are much lower.

On the up side, a lot of things are much cheaper or free (medical fees, internet, life in general except maybe the housing, depending where in the US and in France).

But yes, for your income bracket, you're likely to be worst off.

Keep looking, because salaries in tech are wildly variable, literally 25k to 100k+.

Keep in mind, high salaries are likely to be in Paris, but life their is expensive, especially housing.

And finally, it's your choice. Money is not everything in life, and since you'll be confortable either way, you can choose to gain less for an experience you want to live. Only you can answer if it's worth it or not ;)

Re: Ask HN: Should I move from the U.S. to work in the EU?

#10

Post by Dracophoenix »

Have you tried asking your current job to relocate you to a European office? If so you could keep your job and take a pay cut of 10% - 15%.

You can buy a home in the United States and rent it out while you're in a foreign country and use it for yourself if/when you come back. You don't even have to set foot in the US. Buy in a suburb near a university town. You won't be making much of a profit when mortgage and property tax are factored in, but enough to pay for property taxes. You just have to be discerning about who you rent to. This worked for a university professor I know of while he lived in Israel. You should check with state and local laws regarding tenancy and renting to make sure you don't afoul of any odd esoteric bylaw or something of that nature, especially if you're trying take advantage of any tax exemptions.

If you're making 100k per year, you're starting to approach the limit of the Foreign Tax Credit. Keep this in mind when negotiating increases in pay in the future. Other ways you might end up double or even triple-taxed (in case you weren't aware, the US taxes citizens and residents on worldwide income).

America and France have a tax treaty which also list any obligations and conditions regarding Social Security and or France's mandatory pension fund. Research it for any important details or exemptions you might qualify for.

Many countries will require you to have a bank account in their country to pay you. In accordance with FATCA, banks in foreign countries have a special obligation to document and report the holding of Americans overseas. Because of the outsized paperwork and threats to bank secrecy, for a period of time many banks refused to take American clients and dumped many existing ones. That's may still be the case for a number of banks today. You should research FATCA-friendly banks.

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