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Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

theguardian.com

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Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#91

Post by arcen »

CtznIndn wrote: post #48
naruvimama wrote: post #39

Quoted post unavailable.

UK is half way to Sharia?! It's not true, but even it is, why has that got to do with the criticism? There are continuous calls in India for genocide of Muslims, publicly. Past two weeks, religious processions have been undertaken by Hindu extremist orgs in front of mosques with swords and Guns, mocking Muslims. And PM of the Nation has been silent, with no calls whatsoever for peace. It's not 'funny' to criticize PM…

The same is true of Muslim extremists. In general there has been an uptick in India with regards to religious extremists. Please don't try to make it sound as if only one group is making these things happen.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#92

Post by [deleted] »

naruvimama wrote: post #80
MrBlueIncognito wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"who destroyed government or private property during a protest, strike or riot, and that if necessary, the property of the accused would be seized and auctioned to recover the money" — Narottam Mishra, Home Minister https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-61042315.amp If you’re a Muslim living in an illegally-built home and you were _accused_ of being involved in riots, they will bulldoze your life. The extremists…

Why should the country suffer the fanatic beliefs of a few rioters, have we not tried to settle that once and for all in 1947 at a huge price.

[deleted]

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#93

Post by vkou »

leephillips wrote: post #89
gautamdivgi wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn’t Salman Rushdie’s satanic verses banned as well?

Along with several others of his works, and tons of other books, such as The deVinci Code . For various reasons such as being “poorly researched”. Here is a list of over 50 banned books: https://sflc.in/read-me-not-list-banned-books-india But there are others. This is not a democracy.

Why do you assume a democracy can't censor?

All that a democracy is is a form of government where people elect some part of the legislature and the executive. If the electorate wants censorship, then the electorate will get censorship. If the electorate doesn't care much either way about censorship, but the people they elect do, then they will get censorship.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#94

Post by Kab1r »

bruceb wrote: post #47
leephillips wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India never had freedom of speech. Opposition newspapers are often harassed and shut down. They have a law criminalizing offending religious feelings. This is not an exaggerated paraphrase, that’s what the law says. A scientist was convicted under this law a few years ago for demonstrating that a “weeping” statue of the Virgin Mary was not actually weeping blood. The truth was offensive, so the law applied. EDIT: I r…

He was gone after not because of proving it false, but because he accused the church of purposefully lying I believe. One could call it not much different but it isn't the exact same as being prosecuted for debunking a "miracle" From wikipedia: he skeptic-rationalist author Sanal Edamaruku proved that the water stemmed from a faulty sewage system, which seeped due to capillary action. However, Edamaruku also accused…

Defamation should not be criminal imo.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#95

Post by leephillips »

naoqj wrote: post #83
leephillips wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India never had freedom of speech. Opposition newspapers are often harassed and shut down. They have a law criminalizing offending religious feelings. This is not an exaggerated paraphrase, that’s what the law says. A scientist was convicted under this law a few years ago for demonstrating that a “weeping” statue of the Virgin Mary was not actually weeping blood. The truth was offensive, so the law applied. EDIT: I r…

> They have a law criminalizing offending religious feelings. Happens in the first world too! 2018: "In Europe, Speech Is an Alienable Right: [the European Court of Human Rights] upheld an Austrian woman’s conviction for disparaging the Prophet Muhammad." https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-fr...

I know it does. It’s a matter of degree. How bad does the threat to free expression have to be before a society is not a functional democracy? It’s a judgement call.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#96

Post by leephillips »

vkou wrote: post #93
leephillips wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along with several others of his works, and tons of other books, such as The deVinci Code . For various reasons such as being “poorly researched”. Here is a list of over 50 banned books: https://sflc.in/read-me-not-list-banned-books-india But there are others. This is not a democracy.

Why do you assume a democracy can't censor? All that a democracy is is a form of government where people elect some part of the legislature and the executive. If the electorate wants censorship, then the electorate will get censorship. If the electorate doesn't care much either way about censorship, but the people they elect do, then they will get censorship.

Good point. What I mean by “not a democracy” is not democratic in a meaningful, functional sense. So if people can vote, but they’re not allowed to share political opinions freely, and specifically if the government decides what you’re allowed to say, then the voting becomes meaningless—or at least, less meaningful. My vote is not informed by what I know about the candidates or various political issues if I’m only allowed to read what the party in power allows me to read.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#97

Post by gautamdivgi »

leephillips wrote: post #89
gautamdivgi wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn’t Salman Rushdie’s satanic verses banned as well?

Along with several others of his works, and tons of other books, such as The deVinci Code . For various reasons such as being “poorly researched”. Here is a list of over 50 banned books: https://sflc.in/read-me-not-list-banned-books-india But there are others. This is not a democracy.

Well, Germany censors the swastika - which has been used by eastern religions for millennia. I think democracy and free speech are different things. Absolute free speech is desired - but not all democracies implement it.

Either way, I don’t think India has ever had “free speech”. It has always been controlled speech.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#98

Post by lolinder »

vkou wrote: post #93
leephillips wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along with several others of his works, and tons of other books, such as The deVinci Code . For various reasons such as being “poorly researched”. Here is a list of over 50 banned books: https://sflc.in/read-me-not-list-banned-books-india But there are others. This is not a democracy.

Why do you assume a democracy can't censor? All that a democracy is is a form of government where people elect some part of the legislature and the executive. If the electorate wants censorship, then the electorate will get censorship. If the electorate doesn't care much either way about censorship, but the people they elect do, then they will get censorship.

There are two kinds of censorship:

1) Censorship of "offensive" content (for some definition of "offensive"), applied equally to all people.

2) Censorship of political opponents, either overtly (as in Russia) or under the guise of censoring "offensive" content.

A democracy can theoretically sustain itself while engaging in censorship of type 1. A democracy that has chosen to engage in censorship of type 2 is on its way to becoming an authoritarian regime, even if that censorship has public support in the short term. Eventually, the opposition is slowly but surely silenced altogether, and you end up with single-party authoritarian rule. Your vote doesn't matter if no one is allowed to campaign against the status quo.

Further, I would argue that it is very difficult to prevent type 1 censorship from turning into type 2 censorship, because the party in power is always incentivized to use any tools they have to stay in power. It is more sustainable for a democracy to take a firm stance against censorship of any form than to try to walk that line.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#99

Post by cryoz »

yutijke wrote: post #78

A lot of people will surely have strong opinions on topics like this. And if true, then those strong opinions and voices are needed. But I don't think Hacker News is the right place for this since there is not even a single bit of tech relevance in this story.

Freedom of speech is extremely important to hacker culture.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#100

Post by actuator »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #88
yutijke wrote: post #78

A lot of people will surely have strong opinions on topics like this. And if true, then those strong opinions and voices are needed. But I don't think Hacker News is the right place for this since there is not even a single bit of tech relevance in this story.

> there is not even a single bit of tech relevance in this story This story first came to my attention through a fellow LP in a VC fund currently deploying in India. If this is part of a broader pattern, it's relevant to anyone with or considering exposure to India, personally, financially or professionally.

With what we have seen in China, I hardly think it matters whatever happens in India with relation to freedoms as long as the economy booms. Investors will pour money for returns.

But I had a question about this. Do VCs looking for data and analysis of a country largely rely on foreign press or read an assortment of local media as well?

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