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> intelligence distribution skews more male at the higher end Really? You think there are inherently more intelligent men than women?
Check the chess grandmasters distribution. Or Go.
Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
301–310 of 666 posts
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#302During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…
> "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. What's the difference between "over qualified" and "more than qualified"? ;)
The amount they'll have to pay to keep the person in the future.
They don't want someone that will leave in a year. They want them to stick around, without inflating their budget.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's kind of ageism-adjacent, but I wonder if some of it is a bias that expects that past 40 you shouldn't really be needing to apply to jobs by resume drops any more. So like, seeing that type of application is in an indication that the person's first twenty years of career haven't yielded the kinds of achievements and contact network that have bumped them out of the hustle and into the world where they no longer be…
> It's kind of ageism-adjacent, but I wonder if some of it is a bias that expects that past 40 you shouldn't really be needing to apply to jobs by resume drops any more. I really wish people would stop this. I don't really keep in touch with many coworkers due to time. My friends tend to come from outside of work and they're not software devs. It definitely is age-ism adjacent; having to "network" to get a job is muc…
> I don't really keep in touch with many coworkers due to time. My friends tend to come from outside of work and they're not software devs.
'friend' is a much higher bar than 'somebody in your network'.
plenty of folks i worked with over the years, who i haven't heard from in decades, but i'd move them to the head of the line if they called up asking about work. i remember who got shit done and who didn't, and don't care that they didn't put in a repeating calendar item to take me out for a beer every 17 months.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
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I find it amazing that you think this kind of blatant racism is acceptable - what does being “white” have to do with his behavior or performance? or do you think certain skin colors are limited in their abilities and performance?
It's been the norm between 2020 and about five minutes ago.
Don't let this comment get flagged or buried, let people see it.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't our genes dictate how we interact with the environment? I'm not sure how it could be anything but. That being said, yes, we can change our environment and see changes in measured intelligence. A person with a head is smarter than one without. To tie it back to your original point, you're saying the male/female differences in intelligence are purely environmental? As in, if two people with different genetic make…
Not really. Not the degree you seem to think. Otherwise identical twins would have the same personality. You’ve edited your post while I wrote this response. Your final point is a straw man. I didn’t say anything like that. Good day to you
Identical twins aren't exposed to identical environments; if the programmed response was particularly sensitive to small input variations, genes could completely determine interaction with the environment and identical twins could still be very different.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#306There are very concerning patterns developing at the moment in the DEI space. DEI efforts, and often those leading them, are increasingly the most biased and close minded parts of the organization. Spreading selected stereotypes and often solving concerns about “discrimination” by being very biased and inequitable. For example at my last company a report showed that slightly fewer of a certain minority were promoted.…
Hear hear.
If your conception of diversity doesn't include viewpoint diversity, you are operating within a prejudicial, small-minded, small-hearted, and regressive framework. If you belive the most salient details about a person can be read from their appearance, you are a bigot.
This cuts every which way, but many want to pretend it's not true for their own biases. This includes seeing someone with blue hair and a pronouns pin and writing them off immediately just as much as seeing an old white man with a camo mouse pad and assuming the worst.
Don't do either of these.
You'd be surprised what differences can be bridged if you approach those different from yourself with patience, love, and toleration.
Remember, it's not really toleration if there aren't some things about someone that are legitimately hard for you to accept. It's not an impressive moral feat to extend welcome to those who you already felt were on your side.
My personal bias here tends toward reflexive dislike of DEI stuff because it feels cult-y to me, but the message of toleration it's rooted in (even if that's not always practiced by its proponents) is obviously the only alternative to fighting over whose values will be imposed on everyone else.
At some point, it's federalism live-and-let-live or it's war, kinetic or memetic.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’d pass on Soviet stuff right now, at least until Eastern Europe stabilizes.
Are Che tshirts still cool? Maybe just one of those raised-fist tshirts. That's sufficiently distant from the Russian matter.
Che is great, especially if you can rock a beret.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you name any of these male dominated companies that hire men disproportionately to the gender demographics of their applicants/interviewees? The issue isn't the distribution of employees, it's whether there is sexism present or not and the first thing you'd probably want for evidence of sexism is disproportionate hiring of a demographic compared to their applicant/interviewee demographic. Just because something i…
This really isn't a problem anyone wants to solve. STEM especially has unique issues where if you take extended absences things such as your skills or research will be invalided over the short periods you may be gone. Tackle that with a lack of a childcare and you have a system set to ensure the failure of women. Retention is close to impossible as the cost of childcare is impossibly high.
I'd say this is more industry-specific than STEM. In software I can jump back onto a project I left behind years ago and get productive immediately. This is something I've done with multiple projects. But there is a difference between some of those and other kinds of projects where the deadlines are tied into hardware cycles, like, automotive engineering. And generally in engineering, childcare is affordable because your salaries are high.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
Women's representation in tech matches the graduation rates of relevant fields. Which matches the rates at which women indicate tech as their preferred field in high school and middle school. I think it's in incorrect to say that they're "weeded out". That implies that women are being removed from the field, rather than exercising their own agency and choosing different fields.
> exercising their own agency and choosing different fields. If we accept this as true, fields dominated by women should receive the same grace.
You're conflating two issues: discrimination and self-selection.
Discrimination is never ok. If a woman applies to a job as a developer, she should absolutely not be discriminated against because of her gender.
Self-selection is always ok. If women in aggregate are more interested in biology than computer science, that is fine.
This paper is evidence of discrimination, not self-selection.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
It didn’t take long after Silicon Valley was no longer on the air for the entire industry to become more absurd than its parody. I really don’t think any of this is sustainable either. Latinos in particular seem very opposed to this stuff & given that they are part of the fastest growing demographic in the country I don’t see how political support for policies like this can be maintained.
These politics only appeal to ~10% of the population anyway, and they aren't favored by a majority of any ethnicity. This stuff isn't mainstream because voters like it (which is why it never makes its way into any real laws), it's mainstream because the cultural and media elites like it and they don't have to trifle with a democratic process to impose it. Corporate DEI stuff is also useful to "prove" that an employer…
Corporate DEI has laws backing it, but I don't think that's the full picture. Corporations have a genuine economic interest in diverse hiring even if those laws didn't exist: 1) Diverse hiring expands the labor pool, which suppresses wages. 2) Diverse labor organizes less effectively, particularly if the workers can be kept on edge around each other.