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Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

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Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#291

Post by titanomachy »

mkl95 wrote: post #264

In my area, 40+ developers basically fall into two groups: - Burnt out developers who still like their job. These people often have a background in some STEM field, may hold a PhD etc. They can be difficult to work with due to the odd outburst, but their approach to problem solving is pretty constructive. - Burnt out developers who hate their job. This is the most difficult group of people to work with I've encounter…

The approach to solving it is to get promoted a lot. All of the directors and many of the staff+ engineers at my company are 40+. They are highly respected, receive eye-watering compensation, and if they move more slowly and cautiously than young folks it's chalked up to experience rather than senility.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#292

Post by mrguyorama »

influx wrote: post #135
Manuel_D wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't we legislate away discrimination? Make it illegal, and prosecute the companies that engage in it.

If only we had some laws that were enforced: * Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin; * the Equal Pay Act of 1963 (EPA), which protects men and women who perform substantially equal work in the same establishment from sex-based wage discrimination; * the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA…

Good luck proving a company has discriminated against you for reasons that are entirely contained to an individual's brain.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#293

Post by bjt2n3904 »

JCM9 wrote: post #184

There are very concerning patterns developing at the moment in the DEI space. DEI efforts, and often those leading them, are increasingly the most biased and close minded parts of the organization. Spreading selected stereotypes and often solving concerns about “discrimination” by being very biased and inequitable. For example at my last company a report showed that slightly fewer of a certain minority were promoted.…

> DEI efforts, and often those leading them, are increasingly the most biased and close minded parts of the organization.

That's a feature, not a bug. As Ibram X Kendi says, "the only remedy to past discrimination, is present discrimination".

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#294

Post by thisismyusrname »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #54
throwaway0wha8h wrote: post #39

Throwaway. I'm happy to have more women in tech and hope it occurs or continues. However, virtually everyone recruiting in tech has observed some toxic diversity initiatives, I would venture. Some examples I have seen personally or one degree removed from me. - pressure on HMs to hire more women despite 95% of applicants being male - people in interview panels openly saying "but he's a white man" / "do we want to hir…

>people in interview panels openly saying "but he's a white man" / "do we want to hire more white men" etc. Isn't this illegal?

Yes

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#295

Post by codelord »

It's interesting to me people make all sort of assertions about why men or women are dominant in an industry without anyway to falsify their hypothesis. I provide some data points having lived in several countries that may offer some insight. Draw your own conclusions.

I got my undergrad degree in Iran (a relatively conservative society with an ultra-conservative even anti-women government), where the ratio of women to men in our computer science class was roughly 60/40 in favor of women. The ratio was similar all across the board in STEM and non-STEM fields as more women were admitted and graduated from universities than men. To get admission in Iran everyone has to go through the same standardized test nationally. Women were scoring better and better in the nationalized test than men every year until they passed men the year I went to school. (The trend continued later even prompting the government to introduce legislation to cap the ratio of women at least in certain programs.)

When I went to Europe for grad school (to a very progressive university in perhaps the most progressive European country) to my surprise I had only one female classmate who was a non-European international student in a class of 40.

I let you judge what caused this discrepancy. But I hope we can all agree the issue is much more complicated than some want to make you believe.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#296

Post by [deleted] »

koheripbal wrote: post #109
throwaway6734 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>people in interview panels openly saying "but he's a white man" / "do we want to hire more white men" etc. Isn't this illegal?

In many states, discrimination laws only apply to "protected classes" , which is strictly defined as specific lists of races/religions/lgbt.. If you are white male, you are often not protected by these laws.

[deleted]

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#297

Post by pc86 »

vageli wrote: post #177
imiric wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Work remotely and anonymously. Let the quality of your work shine through so that age becomes irrelevant. There aren't many such roles, but with remote work gaining popularity, they're becoming more of an option.

What jobs are hiring individuals anonymously?

No legal ones, that's for sure.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#298

Post by johnnyanmac »

dheera wrote: post #178
nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

Quoted post unavailable.

If you're in the time range to edit your comment, there is time to actually delete your comment instead of making a passive agressive edit. I feel that simply invites more in-fighting, with less context.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#299

Post by geraldwhen »

My company presented a DEI slide a couple years ago showing black employees on the rise, and white on the decline, with targets of 35% black employees by 2025.

We also have intern roles that specifically require you be black, or lgtbq. It’s wild.

I looked into what it would take to report the job postings, but from what I can tell you need to be discriminated against personally to make any claims.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#300

Post by smugma »

nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

I'm in my 40's have been with the same company (FAANG) for over a decade. I'd say a majority of the management (including engineering) is in their mid-30's to 50's. It looks like the entirety of the senior management in engineering in my org is in their 40's.

There are fewer individual contributors in their 40's, but I know several (some moved from manager back to IC, others stayed IC).

Maybe this is a bigger issue at startups, where the founders are in their 20's?

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